DIR wars...Is it the name?

[Nomaster]

But that's what debate is all about - trying to prove your opponent is wrong. It's adversarial by nature, like our justice system.

There is a win-win method to most things. In conversational debate, which I consider different from academic or legal debate, we are attempting to win the "opponent" over to our way of thinking. Proving a person wrong, especially with an offensive demeanor, meaning, among other things, that you don't attempt to demean those whom you are trying to win over to your way of thinking, will not win you any friends or converts no matter how great you think your position.
In spite of your assertions about the US public School system (and I agree with those) we can regulate our discussions in a manner that allows people to accept our understandings, beliefs, (knowledge); even, perhaps with enough years and introspection, wisdom. This impartation of knowledge isn't successfully done through punishment and petulance. Just because we don't abuse each other doesn't mean that we're wimps.
Aside to the education systems problems, which I believe are many; many school districts have no forms of discipline (and I'm sure the folks at the top want those few that still have some discipline to remove those vestiges) and I too believe that the most of this lack of discipline and order (order does not mean goose-stepping squads of children) stems from inneffectual parenting. Seems people don't understand that self-discipline requires modeling behavior as well as discipline.
And don't get me started on our "JUST US" SYSTEM!

Tom

 

[dweeb]

Frankly I don't give rat about what style any of you dive, but from the way some of you present yourselves in this thread I wouldn't waste one psi diving with you. Agree to disagree and end it there.

That's hardly a sound approach. The best dive buddies I've ever had are people I met by going at it hammer and tongs with them in an online forum. It's a great way to make friends, if you have the maturity not to make it personal.

 

[jonnythan]

You don't need to ... it's obvious.

It's also becoming increasingly obvious that your style of conversation is at odds with what we want this board to represent. Eventually, we'll have to make a business decision.

Consider your choices.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I know what you think of me, but IMO this is crazy. dweeb is a great asset to this board, and as far as I can tell, does everything politely and well within the TOS.

 

[dweeb]

Therein comes the timing...
We aren't always at our most mature.

And those are the times we should count to ten first.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I know what you think of me, but IMO this is crazy. dweeb is a great asset to this board, and as far as I can tell, does everything politely and well within the TOS.

Assets are things that add value.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[jonnythan]

Assets are things that add value.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Absolutely agreed there. dweeb presents some of the clearest, most level headed reasoning on the board, period. If that's not an asset to your boss' business, then I feel for you and mourn for when the board wasn't moderated expressly for maximum financial gain.

 

[Nomaster]

That's a function of the board, not the topic. That's why free speech is important. If there is power of censorship, it WILL be abused.
If there are moderators, they WILL be corrupted by their power. It's inevitable. They don't even have to have a dog in the fight; they may just want to prevent the fight itself. It's just like Fahrenheit 451; the road to tyranny is often paved with the best of intentions.

Here I agree with you 100%.
I whined back a few pages when I discovered about one-third the way through this thread that we were being censored.
Even with the "Ad Hominem" and other logical fallacies in this thread, I saw no call for censorship.

I FEEL SO VIOLATED!!

Just as I believe that I am mature enough to choose the calculated risks I take, I believe that I must prepare myself to the fullest to take those risks, I need to be exposed to the risks and the information that exists about those risks to develop myself further to handle bad situations, or even worse situations than I've already met... In an argument, if I am protected from the dangers of a bad attack I cannot prepare myself, develop myself, to handle bad and worse arguments.

Don't protect me! Inform me! Allow me to inform myself.

Tom

 

[Nomaster]

And those are the times we should count to ten first.

Don't make me get personal. I've managed to avoid it so far, but I can count to ten very fast, sometimes I need to count to one thousand.
This sounds like a lawyer without a case bearbating to fluster his opponent.

Tom

 

[dweeb]

I know what you think of me, but IMO this is crazy. dweeb is a great asset to this board, and as far as I can tell, does everything politely and well within the TOS.

(Snicker) See! SOMEBODY still likes me.

The irony is, SEVERAL people have violated the TOS in responses directed at me, INCLUDING our fearless leader (it's good to be the king.) There's even a thread DEDICATED to apologizing for personal attacks upon me, from, of all things, a member of the "kinder, gentler" gender.

I don't have any animosity against any person here, but I do bristle at IDEAS I find ridiculous. Unfortunately, many people here confuse their identity with their posts, and let their egos take over.

 

[dweeb]

It's also becoming increasingly obvious that your style of conversation is at odds with what we want this board to represent. Eventually, we'll have to make a business decision.
Consider your choices.

Ah, threats. Another tool of tyranny.
And this is supposed to allay my concerns that Novadiver's accusations might be true?

My style is far more civil than at least 1/3 of those involved in this thread. Heck, one exchange between you and me stems from my defense of the position of someone who's done nothing but hurl personal insults at me in this thread. In spite of his doing so, I've repeatedly invited him to explore our difference of opinion more civilly.

I'm blunt, and I don't beat around the bush if I disagree with someone.
I'm also quick to praise what I see as valid reasoning.