DIR wars...Is it the name?

[MXGratefulDiver]

What boggles me is that it's become so contentious that even though DIR is supposed to be a continually evolving and adapting system, always open-minded and ready to change if provably better alternatives arise, the DIR section mods are now squelching even reasoned discussion of changes.

Apparently only certain people up high on Mount Halcyon are permitted to explore and raise for discussion possible changes to the system.

Um ... allow me to interject a little reality here ...

There are no "DIR section mods". Any moderator is free to interject on any forum ... and most of the moderators are not DIR.

Anyone can post to the DIR forum ... providing they follow the guidelines for posting there. And those guidelines boil down to two words ... NO TROLLING!

I'm not aware of any mod telling someone they can't post on that forum ... but what I have told people is that if you can't post within the guidelines then don't post.

If you want to spin that into what Novadiver is claiming, then you have a future in political campaign advertising.

Novadiver ... if a Mod specifically prohibited you from posting on the DIR forum, I'd like to talk to you about it ... PRIVATELY! I'd like to understand exactly what it is you're claiming here, and see if I can't help you resolve the issue.

I won't do it in a public thread, however ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

But that's what debate is all about - trying to prove your opponent is wrong. It's adversarial by nature, like our justice system.

There's a difference between debating and discussion.

Scubaboard isn't a courtroom. It is not our intention to allow our board to degenerate into something that is "adversarial by nature".

If that's what you're looking for, you're in the wrong place ... in which case a board like rec.scuba is much more appropriate for the sort of conversation you wish to engage in.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[jonnythan]

Getting back to the original topic ... I don't think the name's what bothers most people. It's the attitude it engenders in some of its adherents.

I was perusing the photo gallery recently and came upon a photo of a diver ... posted by one of our DIR members. The photo showed a non-DIR diver in pretty nice trim, reasonably nice form ... wearing Jets with spring straps. The caption went something like ... "Jets, springs, poodle jacket, and danglies. He just doesn't get it."

That's my picture, and the caption has nothing to do with DIR vs non-DIR. The strange thing about the picture is that the diver in question seems to be making some effort towards being a better diver - good trim, good buoyancy control, etc. However, his octopus and gauges are not even attached to him, trailing in the breeze as it were, resulting in a strange image and forcing one to wonder why on earth said diver would let his safety gear dangle like that. He has to have gone through some thought process to diverge from the common PADI OW wisdom with his trim and kicking style, but has obviously put zero thought into other aspects of his diving. I clearly said simply that *I* don't get it.

I did not use the word poodle jacket, and I did not say "he just doesn't get it." I resent the fact that you twisted my words to make it sound like I was slamming this guy. It's a funny picture, and it has *nothing* to do with DIR one way or the other.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

That's my picture, and the caption has nothing to do with DIR vs non-DIR. The strange thing about the picture is that the diver in question seems to be making some effort towards being a better diver - good trim, good buoyancy control, etc. However, his octopus and gauges are not even attached to him, trailing in the breeze as it were, resulting in a strange image and forcing one to wonder why on earth said diver would let his safety gear dangle like that. He has to have gone through some thought process to diverge from the common PADI OW wisdom with his trim and kicking style, but has obviously put zero thought into other aspects of his diving. I clearly said simply that *I* don't get it.

I did not use the word poodle jacket, and I did not say "he just doesn't get it." I resent the fact that you twisted my words to make it sound like I was slamming this guy. It's a funny picture, and it has *nothing* to do with DIR one way or the other.

Ah me ... that's what I get for operating from memory ... no intent to twist your words, but the gist of what's there still seems like a jab to me ...

Here's the pic in question ... http://www.scubaboard.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/8895/sort/1/cat/500/page/1

So I have to ask ... "funny" to whom? In what way?

Lots of folks think the "DIR Hall of Shame" is funny ... in fact, that's the only reason it exists.

You don't see anything like that when it comes to any of the other schools of diving, do you?

Seems to me like the guy is making an honest effort at bouyancy control, who needs a little help in other areas. Most likely someone who's overcoming deficient training. Rather than making fun of the poor fellow, perhaps you could've offered something constructive ... and left his picture off the Internet.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[wolf eel]

[NWGratefulDiver Ah me ... that's what I get for operating from memory ... no intent to twist your words, but the gist of what's there still seems like a jab to me ...

Here's the pic in question ... http://www.scubaboard.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/8895/sort/1/cat/500/page/1

Rather than making fun of the poor fellow, perhaps you could've offered something constructive ... and left his picture off the Internet.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)]

HEY who took my picture
Derek

 

[Rubis]

That's my picture, and the caption has nothing to do with DIR vs non-DIR. The strange thing about the picture is that the diver in question seems to be making some effort towards being a better diver - good trim, good buoyancy control, etc. However, his octopus and gauges are not even attached to him, trailing in the breeze as it were, resulting in a strange image and forcing one to wonder why on earth said diver would let his safety gear dangle like that. He has to have gone through some thought process to diverge from the common PADI OW wisdom with his trim and kicking style, but has obviously put zero thought into other aspects of his diving. I clearly said simply that *I* don't get it.

I did not use the word poodle jacket, and I did not say "he just doesn't get it." I resent the fact that you twisted my words to make it sound like I was slamming this guy. It's a funny picture, and it has *nothing* to do with DIR one way or the other.

LOL. He looks like my dive buddy from two weeks ago before/while I started "working" on him. I met this young diver (25 dives) who was very much interested in going into Tech diving ... So we went to a quarry and did some stuff. I took pics of him. He saw me diving. He saw how my gear was streamlined ...
After dive 1 - note I did not say anything - ... He wanted to make changes on his dive gear. How do you clip this ? How I streamline that ? How I route my hoses ? How can I get rid of my Air2 ? Can I try your fins on the next dive ?

After dive 2, he was saying he wanted a long hose after we did some drills and definetely jet fins ...

We went diving to the 1000 islands, spent the week-end in Rockport, dove some wrecks ... He started pointing out differences with other divers. Hey look how those guys are silting the whole place ! How do you do your frog kick ?
The best was for the safety stop ... He stopped hanging on the line all the time after dive 2 and working on being flat ...
While hovering next to the line I started backward kicking for fun. I got the funniest look :"WOW how on the hell you do that ???".
Last dive, and - there I was really proud - , there were a bunch of divers hanging on a line and doing deco ... He just let the line go, put himself flat and we gently surfaced side by side from 30 feet in 5 min ...

End of the week-end : he now wants a backplate and wings and a drysuit ... and he said, "should I take that extreme (this was a joke between him and me) diver fundamental course you told me about ?"

Bottom line I believe in example and mentoring ... I not even once time criticized him or told him "this is the right way"

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Bottom line I believe in example and mentoring ... I not even once time criticized him or told him "this is the right way"

That's what I call "Doing It Right" ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[OE2X]

If I may be so bold as to offer one bit of advice here:

"Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and then beat you with their experience."

It's time to walk away from your computers or think twice about beating a dead horse. None of you are going to change the others minds. Each person has their side. The cat fighting serves only to make yourselves look worse in everyones eyes. The virulence that some have exhibited to one another is unnecessary. Frankly I don't give rat about what style any of you dive, but from the way some of you present yourselves in this thread I wouldn't waste one psi diving with you. Agree to disagree and end it there.

 

[OE2X]

LOL. He looks like my dive buddy from two weeks ago before/while I started "working" on him. I met this young diver (25 dives) who was very much interested in going into Tech diving ... So we went to a quarry and did some stuff. I took pics of him. He saw me diving. He saw how my gear was streamlined ...
After dive 1 - note I did not say anything - ... He wanted to make changes on his dive gear. How do you clip this ? How I streamline that ? How I route my hoses ? How can I get rid of my Air2 ? Can I try your fins on the next dive ?

After dive 2, he was saying he wanted a long hose after we did some drills and definetely jet fins ...

We went diving to the 1000 islands, spent the week-end in Rockport, dove some wrecks ... He started pointing out differences with other divers. Hey look how those guys are silting the whole place ! How do you do your frog kick ?
The best was for the safety stop ... He stopped hanging on the line all the time after dive 2 and working on being flat ...
While hovering next to the line I started backward kicking for fun. I got the funniest look :"WOW how on the hell you do that ???".
Last dive, and - there I was really proud - , there were a bunch of divers hanging on a line and doing deco ... He just let the line go, put himself flat and we gently surfaced side by side from 30 feet in 5 min ...

End of the week-end : he now wants a backplate and wings and a drysuit ... and he said, "should I take that extreme (this was a joke between him and me) diver fundamental course you told me about ?"

Bottom line I believe in example and mentoring ... I not even once time criticized him or told him "this is the right way"

This is mirror of what I experience when diving with Grateful Diver, Uncle Pug and a bunch of others. Because they take the time to help me out, I've become a better diver then ever before. Lead by example and others may choose to follow. If they don't you're still no worse off than when you started.

Wolf Eel had fun with us and by his own admission now he is all to happy to explore the DIR learning path. Before our first dive he thought we would rip into him because we had our gear DIR configured. He pegged us for being militant. We didn't tell him that this was the way for him to dive with us or that his gear sucked (which it didn't). We had him join us, had a fun dive and then he started asking questions. It's flattering to us that not only did he have fun diving with us, but that he no longer views DIR in a negative way. We just did our dives, had fun and got to meet a very cool diver. I'd say that UP and I came out ahead on this deal.

 

[Rubis]

Because they take the time to help me out, I've become a better diver then ever before. Lead by example and others may choose to follow. If they don't you're still no worse off than when you started.

Yes, I have myself walked into this path this year and was helped out a lot by some of the dark side posters and divers that I had the opportunity to meet in person