DIR wars...Is it the name?

[Nomaster]

Thank you. I know your DIR and I'll respect your opinion as long as you don't try and see how mad you can make me.( like others on this board try and do)

I've posted other posts on the value of GUE and the people they have working for them.(top notch) it's the C-card elitist that give them a bad rep.

Is it within the ability of those who know on the DIR board to allow you, as a person who is apparently looking in for your own edification, to merely state that the questioner can get an opinion on another board on another thread?
I ask this, because if we can be so magnanimous to each other we can avoid getting our virtual toes stepped on in our own virtual houses.

Tom

 

[cornfed]

I agree , but I didn't put solo diver under my name.

Actually you did...

Which brings me to the question of " who can post in the DIR forum" . If it's for DIR TO DIR then the only answer anyone ever needs is a link to a GUE site. If it's for DIR to the world then I should be able to post.

The problem with the DIR forum is that most of the regulars there are so on edge that the minute someone posts a question they scream "troll, troll, troll" and start hammering the report post button. They are on edge because so many people do go in there and start arguing with them. I have not problem with debate and will discuss pretty much anything with nearly anyone. In the course of doing so I've learned new things while strengthing my views on other topics. I have no interest however in arguing with people who have little interest in anything other than trying to prove I'm wrong.

 

[jagfish]

I have not problem with debate and will discuss pretty much anything with nearly anyone. In the course of doing so I've learned new things while strengthing my views on other topics. I have no interest however in arguing with people who have little interest in anything other than trying to prove I'm wrong.

Very admirable outlook...

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Getting back to the original topic ... I don't think the name's what bothers most people. It's the attitude it engenders in some of its adherents.

I was perusing the photo gallery recently and came upon a photo of a diver ... posted by one of our DIR members. The photo showed a non-DIR diver in pretty nice trim, reasonably nice form ... wearing Jets with spring straps. The caption went something like ... "Jets, springs, poodle jacket, and danglies. He just doesn't get it."

See, the problem I have with this is that the poster "just doesn't get it". Posting a pic for the express purpose of poking fun at somebody is worse than unproductive ... it just perpetuates an ugly image that DIR would be better off without. I'd be willing to bet he didn't make any attempt to help this guy understand that danglies are dangerous. And the jacket BCD is a complete non-issue. So what was the point of the photo?

On the other side of the coin there are divers like Uncle Pug ... one of the most skilled divers I know. I've yet to see him criticize anyone ... except in constructive ways that are meant to help people become better divers. I can think of several people who've been very positively influenced by him ... I'm one of them. I can honestly say that he's the major reason I decided to investigate DIR further, which helped me break down some barriers I'd built up regarding the topic.

Point is, it ain't the name that influences how you perceive DIR ... it's the way the people you come into contact with promote it.

There are DIR divers ... like Uncle Pug ... who spend effort building others up.

Then there are DIR divers ... like the person who posted this photo ... who spend effort tearing others down.

Most of y'all who are complaining about DIR are only noticing the latter.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[novadiver]

Getting back to the original topic ... I don't think the name's what bothers most people. It's the attitude it engenders in some of its adherents.

I was perusing the photo gallery recently and came upon a photo of a diver ... posted by one of our DIR members. The photo showed a non-DIR diver in pretty nice trim, reasonably nice form ... wearing Jets with spring straps. The caption went something like ... "Jets, springs, poodle jacket, and danglies. He just doesn't get it."

See, the problem I have with this is that the poster "just doesn't get it". Posting a pic for the express purpose of poking fun at somebody is worse than unproductive ... it just perpetuates an ugly image that DIR would be better off without. I'd be willing to bet he didn't make any attempt to help this guy understand that danglies are dangerous. And the jacket BCD is a complete non-issue. So what was the point of the photo?

On the other side of the coin there are divers like Uncle Pug ... one of the most skilled divers I know. I've yet to see him criticize anyone ... except in constructive ways that are meant to help people become better divers. I can think of several people who've been very positively influenced by him ... I'm one of them. I can honestly say that he's the major reason I decided to investigate DIR further, which helped me break down some barriers I'd built up regarding the topic.

Point is, it ain't the name that influences how you perceive DIR ... it's the way the people you come into contact with promote it.

There are DIR divers ... like Uncle Pug ... who spend effort building others up.

Then there are DIR divers ... like the person who posted this photo ... who spend effort tearing others down.

Most of y'all who are complaining about DIR are only noticing the latter.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Well said greatfull diver. It's people like you that can take the edge off the sword, If all the DIR divers took this attitude DIR would be the standard of diving. not just for GUE but for all agencys.

You can't teach children by yelling and degrading them. you have to bring them along and make them want to learn. what you learn in life is based on your willingness to learn at all.

Nice post BOB!

 

[voop]

On the other side of the coin there are divers like Uncle Pug ... one of the most skilled divers I know. I've yet to see him criticize anyone ... except in constructive ways that are meant to help people become better divers. I can think of several people who've been very positively influenced by him ... I'm one of them. I can honestly say that he's the major reason I decided to investigate DIR further, which helped me break down some barriers I'd built up regarding the topic.

Y'know, I've never thought of UP as being of a particular brand. I've just thought of him as someone who seems to be a damm good diver and a good guy. I don't really bother with labels and brands all that much -- I hardly see that as a topic worth spending many many many electrons to discuss on scubaboard and elsewhere....

 

[novadiver]

Is it within the ability of those who know on the DIR board to allow you, as a person who is apparently looking in for your own edification, to merely state that the questioner can get an opinion on another board on another string?
I ask this, because if we can be so magnanimous to each other we can avoid getting our toes stepped on in our own virtual houses.

Tom

When the mods tell you not to post there, that's what they mean. I won't even post to ask to move the thread out of DIR because they feel that the question alone is anti DIR and being anti DIR in the DIR forum is concidered trolling.

 

[simbrooks]

I have not problem with debate and will discuss pretty much anything with nearly anyone. In the course of doing so I've learned new things while strengthing my views on other topics. I have no interest however in arguing with people who have little interest in anything other than trying to prove I'm wrong.

Just using your words here Cornfed, not actually stating this back at you. There are some non-DIR who would say that they feel attacked at times by the vocal minority and get turned off as the arguing is based upon people trying to prove them wrong - this does not seem to be the case with many DIR divers, but i just thought it ironic that the quoted interest in the debates for the sake of proving wrong seem to be the same sentiments as those on the "opposing" side at times.

As i post here on SB about trips i have done, i get questioned by DIR and non-DIR (although still mostly cave divers) divers regarding my protocols as i am a newer cavern diver, with less experience than them. I appreciate the concern and understand that they are trying to "mentor" me by checking that i am following my training, not exceeding my limits and such, trying to "do it right" in all ways, if not neccessarily the formal GUE trained way - but i do understand they (both DIR and non-DIR) are better divers than i (if nothing else due to their training, experience and skill) and i appreciate the concern. If things are phrased in the right way (DIR for communication ) i am happy to respond, if they arent i am more gruding in my response - i still try to respond civily and politely. I cant say that the questions or replies to my replies are always great or beneficial or even friendly and so i too get tired of people trying hard to find faults, prove me wrong and call me an unsafe diver. I may not be the polished product and know most of my areas related to diving that could do with some buffing up a little more, but i am on a learning curve after my cavern training and as such i wouldnt expect to be the same as a full cave or cave 2 (i believe is approx equivalent) diver. It does take away from my enjoyment and willingness to share my experiences/fun when questioned on every step i take, i dont want it to be that way!

 

[Nomaster]

When the mods tell you not to post there, that's what they mean. I won't even post to ask to move the thread out of DIR because they feel that the question alone is anti DIR and being anti DIR in the DIR forum is concidered trolling.

Well, I'm back from a couple hours of work and have spent a little over 90 minutes finishing this thread.
It seems that after all the heated and oftentimes vitriolic discussion things have worked themselves out.
I am left with the feeling that there are good divers on both sides of the emotions and I am curious to learn more of the ways of DIR. I hope there is a campfire and we sing songs like "The more we get together, together, together, the more we get together, the happier we'll be."
I think I will continue to learn a lot from this site, from everyone that I decide has something to offer... That means more than just good knowledge and skills with diving, it means people skills (Okay, we all forget them once in a while) I mean generally speaking.
But I am left with a bit of a bad taste by things that were said that seemed not to be well thought out, some of these things made me feel that there are divers out there who are willing to make choices that I am not.
We have a problem in the US with a great many people who are willing to give up individuality and freedom for safety. I think many of those same people really want to give up responsibility for their own actions, that I didn't detect here, but there is danger of that down the road if we don't ask what all we're giving up each time we make a choice for safety over some individual choice.
Maybe that statement will be clearer with a vague reference.
If a person makes a personal, individual choice to do something we consider unsafe, if that person is prepared and continues to prepare to the best of their knowledge and equipment for these choices, and makes this choice of calculated risk, we do great danger to ourselves to say that this person is absolutely wrong and must join our herd or remain forever wrong. When we choose to take this person's right to take a calculated risk we endanger our individual rights down the road as well. So, I think better would be to include this person, who make what we consider unsafe choices, and include them in our search for safer diving.
A less hazy example, one diver says that cave diving is crazy and unsafe no matter how well prepared, another believes it is wrecks that are the greatest hazard, another thinks "Solo" and shudders, yet another it's drift. Each type of diving has it's own hazards, so rather than point fingers and call names, better to gather all the knowledge and skills to be applied to each diving choice.
Do you realize that there a some complete fools out there who actually jump out of completely functional aircraft on purpose? JEEZE!

 

[Derek S]

Yet you have the nerve to say that I don't do it right. Right by who? You? Some 50 dive newbie? You need to analyse what diving is and find your own way. anything less is blindly following someone that does not have your best interest in mind.

This is the crux of the whole thing right here. It is obvious that your ego is bruised over the fact that someone out there thinks you are "Doing It Wrong". Who gives a flyin' fark how you dive? I sure as hell don't, and I'd be willing to bet that 99% of the real "Bob's Diving System" aka DIR don't care either.

So do us all a favor:

1) Clean the sand out of your skirt
2) Don't give a **** how someone else 3,000 miles away behind a keyboard supposedly 'feels' about your diving.

or

1) Clean the sand out of your skirt
2) Buck-up, take the DIR-F class, then either realize that you in fact learned something, or will at least have a factual, educated bias against "Bob's Diving System"

Seriously people, some of you really need to get lives....