DIR wars...Is it the name?

[novadiver]

You're probably right, but not in the way you think - If DIR has a problem it's the way it is mischaracterized by people who really have no idea what they are talking about.

So once again everybody else is wrong. Or maybe I don't know what I'm talking about . Nice try!

 

[jagfish]

I don't think this is correct. From looking at the list, I know of at least 20 that are actively teaching, and the rest, mostly in Europe and South America, I just don't know one way or the other.

Now that you mention it, I am sure you are right. I said 12 instead of 20. Still a small number when you think about worldwide...

 

[PhotoTJ]

Oh, now I get it... you have an "unhealthy attachment" to DIR!
HHhhaarrrr!
That certainly explains an awful lot.

Rick

ZZZZZZZING!!!!!!!!!!!
That shot parted someone's hair! LMAO!

 

[WJL]

So once again everybody else is wrong. Or maybe I don't know what I'm talking about . Nice try!

Hey bud, I never said anything close to "everyone else is wrong." What I'm talking about is the sophomoric jabs like the "tailhook" dialog posted by Android. Those who don't have a very good understanding of DIR seem to be the most amused by these things.

I don't know how much you know about DIR, but from some of your posts I suspect that it's more than you let on. For example, to answer your question from an earlier post, I'm pretty sure you already know why solo diving is not DIR. DIR emphasizes the importance of diving as part of a team, even for divers with a high level of individual skill. You may be one of those who feel that you would rather rely only on yourself and that diving with anyone else is adding to your risk. I think differently - that a good team decreases the risk for everyone on the team.

Whatever you think is fine with me. You may very well be right that DIR is all a bunch of BS. I happen to disagree. What's amazing is that so many people who are not DIR actually seem to care whether people who try to be DIR think they are on to something better. For crying out loud nobody is trying to force anyone to dive DIR. It's a choice. You can make a different one without offending anybody.

 

[novadiver]

Hey bud, I never said anything close to "everyone else is wrong." What I'm talking about is the sophomoric jabs like the "tailhook" dialog posted by Android. Those who don't have a very good understanding of DIR seem to be the most amused by these things.

I don't know how much you know about DIR, but from some of your posts I suspect that it's more than you let on. For example, to answer your question from an earlier post, I'm pretty sure you already know why solo diving is not DIR. DIR emphasizes the importance of diving as part of a team, even for divers with a high level of individual skill. You may be one of those who feel that you would rather rely only on yourself and that diving with anyone else is adding to your risk. I think differently - that a good team decreases the risk for everyone on the team.

Whatever you think is fine with me. You may very well be right that DIR is all a bunch of BS. I happen to disagree. What's amazing is that so many people who are not DIR actually seem to care whether people who try to be DIR think they are on to something better. For crying out loud nobody is trying to force anyone to dive DIR. It's a choice. You can make a different one without offending anybody.

Easy W, I thought that tailhook thing was just plain funny, I personally don't think that solo diving has that much risk.( at least for me) One thing that I do like about DIR is the fact that the divers at least understand that diving "is an art form" and that it doesn't come natural to all divers.

How about you dive on your team ,and if you see me swim by we can just wave a freindly Hello.

 

[tbuckalew]

I'm just going to copy what I posted on another thread this morning....people on both sides are missing the point...DIR is not an all or nothing thing - just ignore the DM portion:.

I think people on both sides are missing the point. From what I've read from GUE and DIR divers so far, DIR is not an all or nothing concept. DIR diving is designed to make technical diving of the type and variety peformed by GUE a much safer activity. The concepts and techniques and training for the more advanced topics would make many divers better due to the additional training and experience.

DIR concepts can be applied to non-technical dives as well as many of the ideas associated with safety in an overhead environment work equally as well in an OW environment. However (even according to GUE), gear and technique should be adjusted to the specific situation. So...if you're leading a bunch of Disney vacationers around, a DIR setup may not be appropriate for the task and the dive would definately not be a DIR dive nor would it require the full range of DIR technique.

The original question about being a DM and DIR really works in the same manner. The average DM dive is not a technical one (notice I said average, nothing is all or nothing). Many DMs simply act as an underwater tour guide and safety diver. So, would full DIR technique and equipment be required for, say, a 40 foot OW drift dive in Cozumel? Personally, I don't think so. If a DIR diver/DM were to perform this dive with a typical BC and not a BP/Wing would it cancel his DIR status? I don't think so.

Unless GUE's statements and information made publicly available are completely wrong, then people on both sides are missing the point and differences between the rec/sport diver and the DIR concepts and training for cave/overhead/exploration/technical diving. DIR is simply a more advanced "specialty" cert for those wishing to use its concepts or be safer divers for the environments GUE trains for. Yes, you can use those techinques for other types of diving, and yes, additional training will make anyone a better diver, but lets not confuse a basic OW cert and more advanced training designed for specific environments.

BTW...I loved the tailhook comment (I'm a pilot myself).

 

[simbrooks]

I'm just going to copy what I posted on another thread this morning....people on both sides are missing the point...DIR is not an all or nothing thing - just ignore the DM portion:.

I think people on both sides are missing the point. From what I've read from GUE and DIR divers so far, DIR is not an all or nothing concept.

Again not a DIR diver myself, but i do take an interest in their thoughts/ideals and the like, but i have to ask where did you get the idea that it wasnt "all or nothing", at least in the sense of the basics? The common phrase used about GUE's training is its holistic approach to diving, which means an all-encompassing format, including things which are related to diving - although not an actual part of the dive themselves (ie health and fitness). This approach is to get everyone on the same page in the team - therefore if one who wishes to be in that team is not following this approach they arent quite on the same page as the rest of the team - of course they may be trying to improve/gain experience of being DIR. Even people who are DIR-F and beyond trained state that at times they feel they arent DIR as they are still short of where they view the yardstick to be of that training/those ideals/goals - that to me is proof that they regard it as an all or nothing (or very close to that) idealogoy. Many non-GUE trained people take things from the GUE style of DIR diving, but they arent in essence "DIR" as they arent the full package. IMO the statement is a lot closer to the other way around - DIR is closer to all or nothing rather than not.

 

[opiniongirl]

Back to the original question...

The name does endanger the concept. Doing it Safer, Doing it together, Tech Divers Unite, whatever, anything would have been better.

The name impliess that the rest of us have lousy skills. Dosen't really invite me to find out more. Then, what I see is a bunch of morons (who are likely NOT trained) spouting off..so this represents all I've heard about DIR - a few dorks at a dive site who were just trained in tech and have been spending too much time on the internet.

NOT really knowing about DIR, have no desire to, really, but the name implies ego - likely NOT a trait exhibited by the individuals who truly are behind the program. DIR should have protected their image more.

As far as I'm aware, the folks who have the greatest safety record are those who are cave trained, from the orginal cave (ie not padi, not iantd, etcc) cert agency. According to the statistics I've seen, this is the group with the lowest accident rate. I guess that's where I base my decision - the ones who don't need to advertise, but have a quiet confidence.

 

[novadiver]

Back to the original question...

The name does endanger the concept. Doing it Safer, Doing it together, Tech Divers Unite, whatever, anything would have been better.

The name impliess that the rest of us have lousy skills. Dosen't really invite me to find out more. Then, what I see is a bunch of morons (who are likely NOT trained) spouting off..so this represents all I've heard about DIR - a few dorks at a dive site who were just trained in tech and have been spending too much time on the internet.

NOT really knowing about DIR, have no desire to, really, but the name implies ego - likely NOT a trait exhibited by the individuals who truly are behind the program. DIR should have protected their image more.

As far as I'm aware, the folks who have the greatest safety record are those who are cave trained, from the orginal cave (ie not padi, not iantd, etcc) cert agency. According to the statistics I've seen, this is the group with the lowest accident rate. I guess that's where I base my decision - the ones who don't need to advertise, but have a quiet confidence.

I don't think you should " sugar coat" your opinion, opiniongirl, just tell us how you really feel

 

[opiniongirl]

I don't think you should " sugar coat" your opinion, opiniongirl, just tell us how you really feel

Thanks....I just couldn't concentrate any more...my therapist tells me I'm making a big improvement since I've joined this forum.