DIR Halcyon question

[Gombessa]

Clammy - it sounds like you've gotten the advice you've been looking for, and it also sounds like you're pretty much set on what you want. That's all fine, if and when you decide to take Fundies, you can re-evaluate your purchasing decisions and get anything you're missing to be compliant for a pass in the class.

But if as you say cost is really the limiting factor, I strongly encourage you to heed the advice of others above and go for some used equipment. I got a near-mint Halcyon wing for $150 and Agir-Brokk for $200, well under half of what either would cost new. You'll likely save more money than you would with your OMS discount, won't have to cut things off your wing later, and won't need to worry about whether an instructor will have a hissy fit over how the extra grommets will grow arms and choke you to death in a cave. Everybody wins.

 

[Clammy]

Wow, danvolker, that was very interesting. I'm probably at least a month or so away from the actual purchase, so I have time to look at other options. There's only one place that I know of around where I am where I could go to actually see or try a good selection halcyon stuff on.

As for lift, if I'm eventually going doubles etc, 30lbs is too little on the lift right? That's probably a question for another time/thread... at least for specifics. I was looking at bladders that were in the 60lb range. Of course... I haven't completely excluded the idea of having 2 bladders, one for single tank and one for doubles. That's the thing I like most about the idea of BP/W... they are MODULAR!

 

[Clammy]

Clammy - it sounds like you've gotten the advice you've been looking for, and it also sounds like you're pretty much set on what you want. That's all fine, if and when you decide to take Fundies, you can re-evaluate your purchasing decisions and get anything you're missing to be compliant for a pass in the class.

But if as you say cost is really the limiting factor, I strongly encourage you to heed the advice of others above and go for some used equipment. I got a near-mint Halcyon wing for $150 and Agir-Brokk for $200, well under half of what either would cost new. You'll likely save more money than you would with your OMS discount, won't have to cut things off your wing later, and won't need to worry about whether an instructor will have a hissy fit over how the extra grommets will grow arms and choke you to death in a cave. Everybody wins.

Thanks for the advice. I'm not completely set on anything really. I like the idea of getting larger ticket items from respectable and trustworthy shops mostly because they can deal with the manufacturers directly if there's a problem much more effectively than those of us on the lower end of the purchasing spectrum. As far as the cost issue goes, it's not so much the idea of saving a few hundred dollars that I'm concerned about more than A) percentage of total cost and B) saving a little here and there over every item... which adds up quite a bit. I know it sounds a little contradictory to want to save money but not mind spending a little extra on some feature that may not be as important, but it's about total cost and value for the money for me. It's a balancing act, I can ditch the feature I don't need if it's enough to get me the next better version of this or that etc.

That being said, you're right, used isn't a bad idea though since it is just a steel plate we are talking about.. not exactly full of moving parts or anything.

 

[Gombessa]

As for lift, if I'm eventually going doubles etc, 30lbs is too little on the lift right? That's probably a question for another time/thread... at least for specifics. I was looking at bladders that were in the 60lb range.

That's probably why you're looking at bungeed wings. The fact is, many people tend to overestimate the amount of lift they need. Lots of people have more than sufficient weight in a 40-45# doubles wing, even with a stage bottle. It's WAY more inefficient to get a wing that's much too big for your needs, and then try to bungee it down to manageability, than it is get get a properly-sized wing in the first place.

Of course... I haven't completely excluded the idea of having 2 bladders, one for single tank and one for doubles. That's the thing I like most about the idea of BP/W... they are MODULAR!

This should really be something you should to commit to immediately. Nobody recommends a jack-of-all-trades wing for singles and doubles use; there's way too much compromise on both ends to make this option viable, especially if you're as concerned about streamlining as you say. Get a proper wing for singles, and when you need it, get a proper wing for doubles.

 

[b1gcountry]

Ditto on that. A lot of threads talk about the "One Wing". Do a search and you'll turn up a lot. Also, There's not much to break on wings, so as far as used goes, why not. If you get a used plate, and it's all scratched up and ratty, then get some new webbing, and take a wire brush from Harbor freight to it, and it'll look new.

Tom

 

[Ben_ca]

Clammy,
Don't take the suggestions here in a bad way.... most of the guys have been down the path you are taking and see all the pitfalls that lie ahead of you and are just suggesting courses of action that will be of the most benefit in the long run.


Like them I try to help out guys who show interest in the way we dive and try to coach them into making wise decisions. Non verbal, written communication can be misinterpreted and taken as rude and not so polite but just bear with us and try to see beyond the perceived emotions.


Take for example Fins. say for example you bought a cheap pair to get you thru OW ($70) then a pair of splits later on ($200) then decide you want to go this route with Jets ($70 new) Imagine how much you would have saved going to jets right away.... same goes with regs and BC's.

So while you think you are saving money going with a "good enough for now" solution in the long run this gear might not bring you as far as you though it would and then you'll end up back at square one.

(all this being said why don't you just come on out and dive... come dive with some Fundies grads and get a taste of how the system works)

 

[Clammy]

Ditto on that. A lot of threads talk about the "One Wing". Do a search and you'll turn up a lot. Also, There's not much to break on wings, so as far as used goes, why not. If you get a used plate, and it's all scratched up and ratty, then get some new webbing, and take a wire brush from Harbor freight to it, and it'll look new.

Tom

Wait.. there's no "One wing to rule them all"?! Dang.. my quest for that precious has been a waste... I guess me and my 8 other friends are going to have to go our separate ways!

 

[Tanked Monkey]

Without getting too far into the "One Wing for Doubles & Singles" issue, this is the quick & dirty summary:

a doubles rig will require 40-60lbs lift (AL80's to steel 104's with stage bottles)
a singles rig will require <30lbs (even with a steel 104)

If you try to use 1 wing for both applications you'll either have: not enough lift with a smaller wing for even AL80 doubles (and and waaaaay to little lift for steel 104 doubles), or too much lift with a big floppy wing not designed to hug the single tank properly. It comes down to choosing the right tool for the job.

There really is no middle ground wing when it comes to these 2 types of diving. I'd be interested in seeing uw pics of someone diving the same wing in both a single tank and a doubles rig.

Don't take this too hard. Most of us doubles divers considered trying to get a multi-purpose wing (myself included). We've realized that it cannot be done. It's kind of like the El Camino. It's not a great car, and not a great truck either. Although it may look cool.

Mike

 

[RTodd]

Don't take this too hard. Most of us doubles divers considered trying to get a multi-purpose wing (myself included). We've realized that it cannot be done. It's kind of like the El Camino. It's not a great car, and not a great truck either. Although it may look cool.

Mike

This nails it, you cannot use the same wing for doubles and single diving and meet the DIR requirements. Can't be done. The two wings are different. To go one step further, it is really geneally ideal (but not mandatory) to have different doubles wings for different applications. For single tank stuff, I use the same 19lb wing Dan does. (This floats you right at mouth level on the surface so many people weren't comfortable with it.) For AL 80s, I use H's older 38lb wings optomized to only fit on smaller diameter tanks. Again, not sold any more. For steel doubles, I have one set that is slightly smaller for single stage fun stuff and bigger ones I need for tons of stages, etc.

 

[rjack321]

Don't take this too hard. Most of us doubles divers considered trying to get a multi-purpose wing (myself included). We've realized that it cannot be done. It's kind of like the El Camino. It's not a great car, and not a great truck either. Although it may look cool.

The difference being... bungied wings do not look cool on singles or doubles.

I find it interesting that PMS has "tested" their bungied BCs in an effort to counter the biases against them.
OMS BC FAQ http://www.OMSdive.com

Ultimately it comes down to oversized wings with bungies and redundant bladders etc etc. being superfluous when the rest of the dive kit is selected appropriately. Yes that requires more stuff. I have 3 wings for instance (single, small doubles, big doubles). But each is super slick and works jusssst right for its intended application.