DIR Halcyon question

[Clammy]

As outlined is several responses before, the requirement does not specifically say that you have to use Halcyon gear. However, if you read the DIR-requirements careful, you will find that there are not many choices left. You can certainly chose Apeks over ScubaPro, if you prefer, but you will run into problems with most harnesses (just to name one example) from manufacturers other than Halcyon, since they have at least one quick release built in.

Yes, I think I'm going to not go with the quick release. That seems to be a deal breaker and honestly, I'll probably never use it. Single continuous it is!

 

[TSandM]

As outlined is several responses before, the requirement does not specifically say that you have to use Halcyon gear. However, if you read the DIR-requirements careful, you will find that there are not many choices left. You can certainly chose Apeks over ScubaPro, if you prefer, but you will run into problems with most harnesses (just to name one example) from manufacturers other than Halcyon, since they have at least one quick release built in.

I'm sorry, but this is completely wrong. Almost every manufacturer who makes backplate and wing setups offers a simple harness. You have MANY gear choices that are appropriate -- DSS, Oxycheq, Agir, Golem Gear, Deep Outdoors, Halcyon, Dive Rite . . . Those are just the brands I can come up with off the top of my head.

 

[John_B]

If you aren't concerned with the reasons why bungeed wings are considered to be dangerous, then why do you care? It doesn't sound like fundies is an important goal at this time so why bother worrying about it?

 

[b1gcountry]

I think the real issue is that Halcyon is the only manufacturer ballsy enough to put a premium price tag on a given length of weight belt just because it has some not equals signs on it. No other manufacturer markets a basic harness just because it's just the webbing and D-Rings that they already sell. Honestly, other than the Halcyon harnesses, I can't tell the other manufacturer's basic harnesses apart.

Also, we have a very nice used gear forum here, and one on The Deco Stop. I would bet you could find a nice Halcyon Wing used for less than the OMS your looking at new. I picked up an older Dive Rite wing for $75.

Tom

 

[Clammy]

If you aren't concerned with the reasons why bungeed wings are considered to be dangerous, then why do you care? It doesn't sound like fundies is an important goal at this time so why bother worrying about it?

For... more or less future proofing. It's not as if the bungies are permanent, if they were, that'd be a different story. I just don't want to end up having to buy a whole NEW different wing. I can at least try it out and if I don't like it or if it's a problem, I can just cut them off knowing that it cost me just a few extra dollars to try something out.

 

[cave_diver]

I'm sorry, but this is completely wrong. Almost every manufacturer who makes backplate and wing setups offers a simple harness. You have MANY gear choices that are appropriate -- DSS, Oxycheq, Agir, Golem Gear, Deep Outdoors, Halcyon, Dive Rite . . . Those are just the brands I can come up with off the top of my head.

After checking the Dive Rite and OMS websites, I have to apologize. Both of them offer now DIR-style set-ups, called “Basic Harness” (Dive Rite), and “Continuous Weave Harness Setup” (OMS). Perhaps I should check the sites more frequently.

You can also buy some webbing (between $1 and 2 per foot) and make your own harness DIR-style. This way, you can use any BP. You can add D-rings as needed, but DIR likes to limit the number.

 

[rjack321]

OMS plates are fine. You might need to remove a right side Dring on the continuous harness to put the light canister on properly. You won't need the quick release.

I would not bother with their wings. In addition to the useless counterproductive (but at least removable) bungies, OMS supplies really really long corrugated inflator hoses. Hang in the silt long. I have no idea if that would or would not be a class deal-breaker. Regardless of the class, I would not want to dive with one hanging and flopping all over the place.

 

[flareless]

I have a dual-bladder OMS bungied wing for sale if you want a good deal. It went on the shelf when I replaced it with a Halcyon.

In terms of stability and control (never mind all the DIR stuff), the Halcyon Explorer wing BLOWS AWAY the OMS wing. This, of course, is my own personal opinion having put a couple dozen dives on each.

I am by no means a super-duper qualified diver with the last word in gear. I can tell you though that having bought then dumped a lot of gear in a short time searching for the best value in gear don't waste your time on stop-gap measures. If you're even INTERESTED in the Halcyon it's because in your gut you're not sure with your OMS stuff. That's how it was with me at least. I wasn't happy until I finally got the Halcyon kit and since I did I've been totally impressed by its performance and simplistic elegance.

Oh, and I'm not kidding about the OMS wing, it's been stored since the Halcyon came along. I also have the OMS IQ-PAK harness which I've replaced with the Halcyon BP/W configuration. I don't even miss not having the quick releases and it's so tidy and streamlined.

 

[danvolker]

I would think it reduces drag. But, like I said, the price difference was negligable and really it's just having the grommets there for the bungies vs not having it there. If I have to cut them for the class, I won't argue about it, I expect it...

Clammy,
Going for low drag is very smart. A big part of DIR is about how you can have the lowest drag possible. Since you are using a drysuit already, I see no need for anything but the smallest wing available by Halcyon ( or dive rite et al)....I still have one of the early 19 pound lift Halcyon wings, along with a 27 pound lift wing --both from around 1999--both still in excellent shape. The 27 was for my wife, a photographer with huge camera. I believe the smallest wing Halcyon now makes is around 29 or 30 pounds of lift, which is still ultra slick ( feels like non-existent) if you use it properly...ie, set your weighting so that you need a minimum of air in the wings, ever, and get them dead empty before you hit the water ( people who jump in with inflated BC's need to spend more time in the pool with float toys

The bungee wings have so many negatives attached to them, it could start a huge thread. There is no way they are slicker than the small Halcyon wing in the water, and beyond the minimal danger to yourself that the bungee wings could represent, they are like a kick me sign for you to wear on your back.

From discussions on the techlist:
From: trey@netdor.com (Trey)
Subject: RE: Bungee Wings of Death
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 06:43:47 -0400

Mathias, proper wings lift along the tank and wrap up the sides smoothly. The bondage wings create a plethora of shedding vortexes that drag the diver back, like a crumpled, poor-fitting drysuit would. The compression of gas into a small space ( thus not giving the lift per actual volume ) and the fact that this space is restricted does in fact make for instability. Like everything else, you have to try these pieces of **** to see how bad they really are. I tried a rebreather that had them mounted to it and was appalled at how really bad they are.

-----Original Message-----From: Matthias Voss [mailto:mat.voss@t-online.de]Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 4:19 AMTo: Kevin RottnerCc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
Subject: Re: Bungee Wings of DeathCan you be more specific on this , Kevin ?I thought the momentum created is defined by force ( up or down) xdistance between where the force is applied and axis of rotaion, which will be very close to the center of gravity ( to be exact, to the meta-center in an immersed body)So the closer the up and down forces are to the diver , the less momentum they create ( SS backplates, single bottle wings, no oversizewings)
What did I not get right ?Matthias


From: trey@netdor.com (Trey)
Subject: RE: Bungee Wings of Death
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 06:38:43 -0400-----------------------
Kevin, Carmichael, Volker and I did the Jane recovery. She had a drysuit,but the bungee wings would not work. When I tried to use them to lift her,the elastic just made the opv let go, and then the inflator mechanism itselfwas blowing by. Bungee wings are the product of sheer stupidity on the side of the manufacturer, and sheer ignorance on the side of the buyer. All of what you say here is true and I could go on from there as to why these are the antithesis of what is actually needed.

and finally....
From: "Sean T. Stevenson" <ststev@uniserve.com>
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 08:49:38 -0800
Subject: Re: bungee wings?
The restrained (bungee) wings have elastic cord or surgical tubing laced around the bladder to supposedly keep it tight and streamlined at all times. What actually occurs is that surface folds are created inthe wing, which with the bungees themselves increase turbulent waterflow over this surface and thus the diver's drag. The fore and aft profile is also greater with the bungeed wings. (More drag, heavier exertion, CO2 loading, etc.) The restrainers also serve to hold the bladder close to the diver's center of gravity, which makes it easier to roll, but makes it more difficult to maintain a perfect prone attitude in water. The standard unrestrained wings will float upward against the side of your tanks, resulting in a greater applied momentwhich helps keep you in a horizontal position, which is generally the position of greatest function for the diver (certainly from a decompression perspective). The bungees also create a slight positive pressure within the bladder at all times, which will act to forcefullydump the wing when you hit the deflate. This is a faster dumping thanthe standard wing, but if you have a valve or fitting failure your gas may be all inadvertently dumped - very dangerous in an emergencysituation. The positive pressure in the restrained wing also creates a lung loading problem when orally inflating - just one more thing tocontribute to injury or DCS.

 

[Ben_ca]

...and also take a look at the resale value of your gear... Check ebay and see what sells and what does not. While we all want to think that this ride will last forever we should all be ready to walk away from it when it just isn't fun or worth it anymore.