DIR Forum

[JeffG]

I don't really remember the lead in, so this isn't the actual quote but it was something like, "while your posts have some great information in them, trying to read anything you write is worse than shaving my balls with a cheesegrater."

lol...I never read that post. I would of remembered it.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

Trace, don't post this kind of garbage in DPZ anymore. If you want to discuss this some leeway will be given in the DIR forum. In here, the only reason your posting privileges haven't been removed is because lamont is travelling.

My point is that DIR divers in these forums have the ability, based upon their knowledge and experience, not only to solve their own problems through their knowledge of DIR for themselves and their teams, but through debate and dialogue, bring positive changes to DIR and the leaders of GUE and UTD. You don't think a brilliant man like Andrew would listen and weigh the ideas of what a sharp group of DIR divers thought about a valve drill or a better procedure for diver rescue? Do you think the tiny Halcyon lockdown screws were replaced with larger user friendly ones out of pure inspiration on JJ's part? Do you think Halcyon meeting the needs of cold water divers was because JJ loves diving in the Great Lakes. Advancements come through debate among DIR divers on dive boats, at backyard cookouts, on message boards, and at GUE HQ. Sometimes information moves up. Sometimes it moves down. But, to stifle debate in DIR forums, stifles growth.

Rebreathers will probably be the next big interest among DIR divers because already there is a large interest among GUE leadership in their role. You can bet that is being discussed and argued in HIgh Springs.

 

[Sloth]

My point is that DIR divers in these forums have the ability, based upon their knowledge and experience, not only to solve their own problems through their knowledge of DIR for themselves and their teams, but through debate and dialogue....

You are so wrong. There have been so many divers on these forums who go and take a Fundies or essentials class, switch to another agency for deco training and then start applying what they think they know about DIR deco diving to their diving, some with predictable results.

I think it's fair to say that until you have been through Tech 2/Cave 2 or its UTD equivalent then you don't actually fully understand "DIR". Plenty of posters on these and other boards have done just that and then moved away from DIR. They dont tend to go around bashing DIR other then to put some new zealot like me in their place. They tend to let their experience and others speak for them instead of name dropping. You could really learn a lot from them.

I honestly feel like you are trying to sale us something. The fact that you always have to spend 3 paragraphs of every reply dropping names and talking about sitting around the camp fire talking to all the top guys in GUE makes it seem like you are trying really hard to make sure we all think that you are in some inner circle of elite tech instructors. It really is destroying your credibility. Let your students, your past teaching successes and your advance dive experiences talk for you. I'm not sure why you think name dropping is helping.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I asked the question simply to set up one of the things Bob Sherwood explained to me about the Britannic expedition and one of the reasons why steel tanks are not just for cave diving where you can crawl/pull out of the cave. I recall arguments in the past about the drysuit balancing the rig among the DIR cadre, and if IIRC somewhere in the G-isms there was something about drysuits not being thought of as redundant byouancy at the time. Which is why I asked the board. Aluminum tanks are still preferred in open water, even with drysuits, over steel.

I do not know a single DIR diver ... at any level ... who dives AL cylinders for backgas in Puget Sound. LP104's or HP130's are the cylinder of choice here ... with a few folks such as myself (but then I don't claim DIRship) choosing HP119's because they balance out better on short, stubby bodies.

You DO know ... having intimate relationships with all the GUE luminaries ... that there are and have always been significant differences in the "tanks of choice" that are influenced by the environment and conditions in which they are dived.

I'm doing a 200+ foot wreck dive with some DIR-trained buddies tomorrow ... we'll be using steel doubles. I've never heard anyone suggest we should be using AL tanks for those dives (except for stages and deco). Nor do I think anyone would take them very seriously if they did.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[cfenton]

While I think arguing over whether or not steel tanks for OW are DIR is completely missing the point Trace was trying to make, I'll bite anyways.

In my first T1, with Bob Sherwood, all the students used steel tanks and so did Bob. He did talk to us about his preference for aluminum tanks for all his OW diving. During the discussion he suggested that HP130 may not be balanced. So he had us descend with no gas in our suits and completely empty our wing at depth. We managed to swim them up to the surface without to much trouble.

Obviously if I had full bottom stages and deco bottles I would be significantly heavier. But then I could drop the stages. I would also have my drysuit. Plus it's unlikely I would wreck my wing to the point that I couldn't trap some gas in it.

 

[cfenton]

Back to the original topic. I read the DIR forums almost every morning with the newspaper but rarely post anything. In the few years that I've been around I've always thought of the SB DIR subforum(s) as having good entertainment value - people arguing with non DIR divers or people missing the point of DIR completely and arguing over minutia. For serious DIR answers I do think there are better places - DIRX for example and I hear GUE is coming out with a new forum.

The problem with the SB subforum, as I see it, is that there are only a handful (or two) of really knowledgeable people who post regularly. RTodd's suggestion seems to be the way to go if you want to change that. I'm just not sure it's worth the effort.

 

[rjack321]

lemme see, what threads of high value have been here in the DPZ since its creation...

30/30 vs. 25/25 vs other (21/35)
gas planning with stages
GUE vs UTD differences
stage marking (multiple)
cave1 rule changes
v-planner usage
multi-day repetitive profiles
in-water support
Vision of DIR
ascents (multiple)
deco variances

Were any earth shattering revelations revealed, not really. Was it interesting to hear about other people's choices and diving, yes. Its fairly obvious who has a decent grasp of the big picture. And among those contibutors, I don't see any answers that were scripted from the book, Andrew's DVDs, or High Springs etc.

 

[cfenton]

Good point!

I have a link to the Technical Diving Specialty on my desktop and tend to click on whichever thread is the latest under the DIR heading. I don't pay much attention to which sub-forum the thread is in. So I guess I must paint the entire SB DIR forum with the same brush.

Of the threads you mentioned from the DPZ there are still basically 10 people contributing. This might change if the somewhat entertaining, but most often useless, "discussion" in the main DIR forum didn't exist. "It gets tiring after a while" as NW GratefulDiver pointed out in post #25.

 

[The Chairman]

I think there is a need for a DIR forum where the rules allow full debate from both sides (pro and con) and the fact that the topic seems to bring out the passions on both sides I see as a good thing.

Damn Jeff... I like this idea. Sort of like "DIR vs Straights" Forum? Come up with a suitable name and we can do this.

As I envisioned the split:

The open DIR forum was for peeps to ask general questions like "Is NetDoc really a stroke?" and get ONLY DIR answers. Non-DIR divers should post their answers elsewhere and not here.

The Practicioners forum was for DIR minutiae and advanced topics like "Are bent d-rings really DIR?" Since only practitioners can post in there, you're entirely on your own.

I also agree with JeffG that CONFUSION is our main problem. No one seemed to get it, and as RTodd pointed out, some of the DIR mods just wanted to bash rather than educate the masses. While public humiliation may be apropos in some circles, it certainly has no place here on ScubaBoard.

For the record, I think that Lamont has done a WONDERFUL job with keeping this forum out of mod's hair. It's not nearly as cantankerous as it used to be. Yes, well meaning mods may make mistakes from time to time, but again: it's not nice to revert to public humiliation en concert to effect a change. Try a PM to them or me, or send an email to Abuse@ScubaBoard.com.

Who would have ever thought that JeffG and I would agree so much on a DIR topic?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Damn Jeff... I like this idea. Sort of like "DIR vs Straights" Forum? Come up with a suitable name and we can do this.

How about "The Jerry Springer Show" ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)