DIR Forum

[RTodd]

As a follow up and broader response to stickies, does anyone want to bother to do anything with the main forum? The reason for leaving it around when this one was created was so that non-DIR diver's questions about DIR could be answered. Now, they are getting most of their advice from the extremely anti-DIR and a self-professed solo diver. While comical, this is never going to be helpful advice if a DIR answer is actually desired.

I gave up when I realized that Bob and I were in violent agreement that the nonsense should be ended. And given that we are on opposite ends of the poles of what is DIR, it is pretty safe to say that anyone falling outside of that definately isn't.

While stickies would be nice, the purpose of the forums is to discuss issues. My advice would be that if we want to provide a real answer to a legitimate question, someone should move the response into the practioner's forum. That will allow the completely stupidity to continue in the DIR forum but we will slowly create a searcheable forum with just good answers.

And, if you think we should try to save the DIR forum feel free to try. It has been tried several times in the past. The non-DIR mods, aka Thal's chronies as far as I can tell, have undone Lamont's attempts to restore order twice. So, it appears to be getting worse rather than better. Unfortunately, NetDoc appears unwilling to take the action the DIR Mods requested to fix the primary issues a year ago. I don't blame him really, this forum is too low traffic in the scheme of things for him to really care. But, as a result, I think that forum is going to continue to get stuffed with non-DIR stupidity.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Actually, we are not on opposite ends of the poles on what is DIR.

I have never professed to be DIR. I have tried to be honest about who and what I am ... someone who has made an effort to educate myself on what DIR is. I have taken just enough DIR training to consider myself DIR-cognizant. But within the context of the DIR forum I do make an honest attempt to respond to questions in a way that represents what I understand about DIR. Feel free to correct me when we disagree ... I recognize and respect your views.

As to the forum ... I believe it has outlived its usefulness, primarily because the rules for posting are not enforced. And when the person who is charged with moderating the forum attempts to enforce them, he's being overruled by a senior staffer who has no clue what DIR is.

That makes the whole forum rather a joke that exists more for the entertainment of those who have no interest in DIR than for those who do.

Or maybe just rename it the DIRision forum ... because that's more or less what it's become.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[RTodd]

Bob, you actually understand DIR. May not dive that way all of the time, but you can give rational DIR answers. That is all I meant.

 

[JeffG]

I just believe that the confusion comes from what exactly is the purpose of the DIR vs DIR Practitioners forums.

I don't believe there was ever a agreement on the fact. I think some people think one way and others another....and in the mean time the "Sticky" was never updated. (adding to the confusion)

Back when I was a DIR Forum mod, what I proposed was that the DIR forum was to debate DIR (pro vs cons) and against other "styles".

The DIR Practitioners forum was where only DIR answers were allowed.

That way...the reader could pick the debates/discussions he/she wanted to do.

Of course...no official sanction was given to this and the sticky was never updated.

Right now, there is no rhyme or reason to whats being done and I think that just compounds the frustration on all sides.

 

[lamont]

I think some progress has actually been made in PMs, and I think I have a better, more constructive way forwards to deal with some of the abuses in the DIR forum.

And my understanding of the differences in the forums is that the DPF is for strictly DIR answers to questions and not for argument (at least not for argument about the simple things which are answered in the various courses). The DIR forum is for arguments about DIR, but not for trolling DIR flamewars.

So answers about the DIR way to do a valve drill go into the DPF. Debates about 25/25 vs. 30/30 (GUE vs. UTD) will go into the DPF, as will debates over less-clear things at higher levels. Arguments over the DIR process of going for the right post first rather than the isolator go in the DIR forum (there is a clear answer and a clear stated reason why, but arguments about it in the DIR forum will be tolerated until the horse is declared dead and time is called). Trolling about DIR divers being stupid for diving all black get moderated.

Also, we don't really get enough postings in the DPF forum from the less experienced and everyone seems to just watch it and seems to be scared to post. The worst thing that is likely to happen is that I'm going to moderate the thread to move it up to the DIR forum if its more appropriate there. And I'm not going to moderate questions if they're they're well-meaning attempts to gather information (in either forum), its the answers which might trigger moderation.

 

[JeffG]

I think some progress has actually been made in PMs, and I think I have a better, more constructive way forwards to deal with some of the abuses in the DIR forum.

And my understanding of the differences in the forums is that the DPF is for strictly DIR answers to questions and not for argument (at least not for argument about the simple things which are answered in the various courses). The DIR forum is for arguments about DIR, but not for trolling DIR flamewars.

So answers about the DIR way to do a valve drill go into the DPF. Debates about 25/25 vs. 30/30 (GUE vs. UTD) will go into the DPF, as will debates over less-clear things at higher levels. Arguments over the DIR process of going for the right post first rather than the isolator go in the DIR forum (there is a clear answer and a clear stated reason why, but arguments about it in the DIR forum will be tolerated until the horse is declared dead and time is called). Trolling about DIR divers being stupid for diving all black get moderated.

Also, we don't really get enough postings in the DPF forum from the less experienced and everyone seems to just watch it and seems to be scared to post. The worst thing that is likely to happen is that I'm going to moderate the thread to move it up to the DIR forum if its more appropriate there. And I'm not going to moderate questions if they're they're well-meaning attempts to gather information (in either forum), its the answers which might trigger moderation.

Then you better update the stickies.

 

[lamont]

Oh, also, I made a conscious choice to let the recent thread play out and let both sides say what they wanted to in order since that seemed to be the best way to let the safety release valve go -- so some of the fault for 'not enforcing the rules' is on me. And, in particular, I do like letting Trace have as much rope as he likes in the DIR forum since he's taken advanced GUE courses and I know he has a good relationship with Sherwood, and that debate seems to be in a generally productive direction -- and the trolling was causing Trace to come out and post...

The kind of annoying thing with moderating the DIR forum is that its often the troll threads that cause someone like Dan Volker to pop his head out of wherever it is most of the time and post something amazing about the history of DIR..

 

[lamont]

Then you better update the stickies.

Okay, I can't promise anything today, but I'll do some work on it.

I'm leaving for UK/Spain on Thu night so I might be busy this week, someone bug me if I forget.

 

[JeffG]

Okay, I can't promise anything today, but I'll do some work on it.

I'm leaving for UK/Spain on Thu night so I might be busy this week, someone bug me if I forget.

See...thats why they left you in charge and got rid of RTodd and me.

No rest for the wicked.

 

[rjack321]

I don't really care that much about the regular forum. I realize there are some backroom battles going on with other moderators who are basically using it as an excuse to troll or post inappropriate answers that they could never get away with in other venues. So I suggest either finally getting NetDoc to limit the troublemakers' moderator powers in that parent forum, or deleting it. The worst thing would be to let it continue as a place where the bitter can post patently non-DIR material as a reasoned answer or even discussion when they are really just using it as a place to fling anti-GUE, anti-WKPP, anti-Andrew etc poo.

I've offered to moderate that forum but honestly its not really a place I feel compelled to save (given the other non-DIR moderators mucking about in there).