DIR fins

[Dan Gibson]

but FF are a serious rule 6 violation, so that rules them out as being DIR

well since the DIR requirement is simply to not have any strap or buckles that can break. then there is the desire that you can use it for all diving conditions,

Even if you add the other desires, that you can kick forward, backward, helicopter, flutter and frog (or modified frog). then just about any moderately stiff paddle fin does fine, and even some of the better, more flexible fins (ForceFin) also meet the requirements.

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[Jay Roy]

huh, why am I not surprised that someone who justifies his opinion by admiting that they have never tried them, follows it with a strong damning statement that "I doubt it"

If Jets worked so "perfectly" then please explain why other fins exist at all. Since Jets have been around since... well since the birth of Scuba, and if they were so perfect then why would anyone try and improve on perfection. Oh wait, maybe its because perfection doesn't exist, and the Jets are everything but perfect. Hence the reason that so many divers are moving to different newer fins that have been designed to create lift vice drag.

If you are going to form an opinion at least base it on something, other than "I doubt it". Talk to people that have EXTENSIVELY DIVE both styles and types. I had to dive Jets for well over 200 dives with my job, but finally dumped them in favor of my ForceFins. In the process I have used many other fins, including Mares Avanti Quattro, Dacor BlackTigers, Apollo Bios, Atomic Splits, and at least a dozen others. The only fins that I have tried that I even liked at all other than the ForceFin, were the Atomics and the Apollos. The Atomics I enjoyed until those panels started falling out and I dumped them for the Apollo's, which I later sold to a friend since I never used them.

robertarak- if you would like to hear from the people that dive the FF line, head over to the FF subforum and multiple people will be happy to backup my statement that FF's can accomplish ALL of the required kicking styles that DIR desires

Yah..its kind of like how the people with the most knowledge and opinions on DIR have in fact never taken a GUE course...

 

[meesier42]

well in this case the "military" fin was actually designed by working with Seal Team Bravo (I could be wrong as to which team) in SanDiego. The Military name actually comes from the Military Requirements that were given to Bob by the teams. They included things like: must pack flat, must fit combat boots, must fit many foot sizes, must have a hanger hole on the end, and of course must be black. It took Bob many verisons to get them to accept the fin, but in the end from what I understand almost the entire team now uses them, or one of the other FF models (such as the TanDelta in Smoke Black, a color also created specifically for the seals). As for price, well the SD-1 footpocket is currently being hand laced and even then in extremely limited production numbers (basically custom order) so for now they are expensive, IF Bob decides to go into full production I can only assume that this will reduce the price. But if I remember right they are on par with the price of the other prime fins (excellerating, extra).

I am planning on putting my SD-1 Military's through their paces with my DS this weekend, as I am just learning DS diving. But I can tell you that their is another guy on the boards that really enjoys dive his SD-1 Military with his DS. I will ask him to comment on the bouyancy characteristics, but what I do know is that he really enjoys them. You can actually see a picture of him on the FF website with his fins, he is on the bottom right of the page.

As for bouyancy, well, different people have different requirements for ankle wieghts, and I can't really comment on what you might need. but I can say that since you are using ankle wieghts (heavy Jets are in effect ankle wieghts) when you loose that balast you may end up finding that you may need to add some to get your trim back in line.

 

[wedivebc]

Different strokes for different folks. .

Hey who you calling a stroke? I said I wasn't DIR

 

[meesier42]

but FF are a serious rule 6 violation, so that rules them out as being DIR

well I think the Gale already spoke about the "look cool" rule.

Of all the criticisms of FFs, the most baffling to me is that they're "ugly." What's ugly about elegant, clean lines? I think they're really quite beautiful, but then again, I find a lot of mass-market fins really unattractive and overdesigned (Mares Volo Power or Sherwood Kinesis, anyone?).

but then again, this is a matter of opinion. I love the way they look, even with 10 years of beating on them and all the "character" they have just improves them. But at the same time, I am grew up with flame orange red hair and accordingly its has become my opinion that if I don't stand out from the crowd, then I have simply become one more lemming in the crowd.


As to the my DIR training, I have read the books (well 1 book) and spoken to instructors and made the conscience decision that its not for me. Although I appreciate the concepts of DIR diving (as smart well trained divers make safe divers), and infact practice some of their recommendations (long hose octo for example) their are things that I don't agree with (BP/W). Although my desire to learn kept pushing me to go through with the training, in the end, I made the decision that since I don't do cave, trimix, or other technical diving, its not for me.

 

[Dan Gibson]

We won't be impressed until they still look good at around 40 years I wonder if Walter has a pair of Jets that old.

I love the way they look, even with 10 years of beating on them and all the "character" they have just improves them.

 

[Jay Roy]

Although my desire to learn kept pushing me to go through with the training, in the end, I made the decision that since I don't do cave, trimix, or other technical diving, its not for me.

So in other words, you don't know if you'd be able to push a set of doubles and multiple stage bottles with Force Fins....

 

[Gale68]

So in other words, you don't know if you'd be able to push a set of doubles and multiple stage bottles with Force Fins....

Hey, not everyone gets their happies on in the same way. There are some (I'm not one of them) who love caves and wrecks so much that schlepping a half-dozen tanks around for a single dive is no hardship at all. And if they do, then FF can, in fact, provide a pair of fins capable of pushing all that junk through the water. Not sure which model. Blair would know, if he's monitoring this thread, or Avi, or Susanne.

More power to you tekkies out there, whatever brand fins you use. Just because I don't have any desire to do that kind of diving doesn't mean I have any beef with those of you who do!:blinking:

I would have let this pass, but I've heard this "Force Fins can't push stage bottles" meme before, without anything to back it up. It's one thing to say "I've never tried FF but I like my jets" or "I tried FF but decided I liked my ___ better." But I do take exception to opinion posing as fact.

 

[meesier42]

So in other words, you don't know if you'd be able to push a set of doubles and multiple stage bottles with Force Fins....

actually yes, in fact I do know that I can push all that around, since I used to work as a Navy Diver, pushing doubles, tools, lights, cameras, and even pnuematic tools once in a while. all with absolutely no issues what so ever. And having to move about 300+ foot long ships and avoiding seawater intakes. I don't consider any of that technical diving, as I did it Air and all within no-d limits.

and if my testimonial and the below threads aren't enough for you, watch some of the DeepSea detectives with John Chatterton, who normally wears a pair of the Excellerating ForceFins, if a venerable wreck explorer like this wears them, there must be a reason.

here are a couple of other threads with testimonials from other divers including Blair Mott from the Jean-Michel Cousteau Ocean Futures Society Team (who as I understand it, exclusively use forcefins).
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/force-fin/209923-explore-your-own-backyard.html
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/force-fin/213028-they-still-look-different.html
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/force-fin/212212-force-fins-12-04-07-a.html

as for which fins I use- well I currently have a set of Extra Force Tan Deltas with Whiskers and a pair of Military SD-1. I used to have a set of Pro's but a friend of mine "borrowed" them about 3-4 years ago and I haven't seen them since, except while we are out diving. The Extra Force TanDeltas are absolutely fantastic fins and accomplished every task with ease. If you really enjoy the frog kick then the Excellerating ForceFin is probably a better fin, as it was designed to maximize thrust from a short snappy kick, just don't read this as them being a one hit wonder, because they do it all

As for the SD-1 Military's well I only have about a dozen dives on them right now, but I really like them. They are not as powerful as the Xtras, but much more manueverable and easier to kick. They proved themselves on the 2nd open water dive I did with them. I was off OBX, NC diving on the Proteus. Well the point is, there was a roughly 2 knot current on the down line and of course I let go of the line (had to rearrange some gear that came loose on the entry, yes I know this was really dumb) and when I looked up realized that I was probably 100ft downcurrent of the downline. Well, I just decided that I will kick my way back to the line (I could see the bottom and the boat so I wasn't too worried). Well the next thing I know I am back at the line. As I grab the line something dawned on me, I wasn't out of breath, I wasn't even breathing hard, legs felt fresh, and I ask myself, "how did I get here?" Then I realized, man these fins rock!!

 

[JeffG]

As to the my DIR training, I have read the books
...
and infact practice some of their recommendations (long hose octo for example)

enough said