DIR-F Changes

[GearHead]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
Sorry, I can't help myself...

It sounds like they changed their mind about telling divers at that level that they shouldn't use a computer.

You're exactly right, Mike. The CRYB mantra is no longer being chanted by GUE, and I'll bet you can guess why . . . . Liability. You have to consider the lowest common denominator when giving them mentally challenging concepts and tools, because when the ideas get misunderstood and misused, people get hurt. They apparently decided that DIR-F wasn't the proper environment for teaching their "deco on the fly" methodology, though it apparently is still part of the curriculum higher up.

I'll post later about "computer smart/dumb"

 

[bwerb]

One of the things I think is kinda cool about GUE right now is that they are truly in the active process of refining their courses and are making changes to the curiculum based on real world experience. I'll let Rick talk about the "computer smart/computer dumb" later but suffice it to say, their appears to be a true recognition that decompression theory and practice goes hand in hand with training. At the "recreational level" NDL diving, teaching full-on NDL ratios on the fly is a bit like putting the cart before the horse. Until decompression is taught and the student has a real understanding of what is going on, teaching advanced deco techniques and memonics is totally open to complete misuse and misunderstanding. I got the impression (MY OPINION) that GUE wants to ensure that the training is conducted only when the students have a complete understanding of what decompression is all about.

The gas management, Rock Bottom, and Rule of 3rds/halves etc. was great at the DIRF level...I learned TONS!

 

[GearHead]

NetDoc once bubbled...
computer dumb vs computer smart??? This sounds like an interesting development.

Rather than go into detail, I'll just throw out 2 hypothetical Recreational Diving Scenarios. Please note, this is just my take on computer diving which really hasn't changed from before I took the class:

________________
An example of Computer Dumb
"Hey, my CPU says I'm near the NDL, I don't have much air left, I better boogie on up to my 'safety stop' at 15 feet. After that's done, I can inflate my BC and pop to the surface. Later, when my CPU is 'back in the green', I'll do a shore dive and just make sure I don't 'get into the red' for that one."

________________
An example of Computer Smart
"Well, as per my dive-plan, I'm back at the ascent line with XXXX psi left in my tank. Based on my dive depth and time so far, my CPU confirms that I'm within the NDL, as expected. I'll start my gradual ascent according to my plan, inlcuding a few specific stops, confirming with the CPU that my asc.rate stays well below 30fpm. That should manage my off-gassing nicely." I'll plan my surface interval and next dive on the boatride back with the computer's "Plan" mode.
________________


You see what I'm saying?

 

[The Chairman]

it's just re-emphasizing the concept of planning your dive and diving your plan, and using your computer as the tool that it is. It takes sentience to plan safely and no computer has that yet. :tease:

 

[GearHead]

NetDoc once bubbled...
it's just re-emphasizing the concept of planning your dive and diving your plan, and using your computer as the tool that it is. It takes sentience to plan safely and no computer has that yet. :tease:

Is that all that you got out of my example? Maybe I didn't write it well enough.

 

[The Chairman]

that I plan my dives more thoroughly than most. I don't just jump into the water and wait to see which expires first... my air or NDL. When we were diving with the Wreckmaniacs, the least amount of gas I surfaced with was 1600psi, and ONLY because I donated my long hose to a diver who was low on air. Rather than him consider blowing off his deep stops or safety stops, I donated while he had 400 psi left just to be sure. Most of the time I came up with 2000 or more. I never went into a required deco obligation and I kept a close eye out on the class.

Many tech divers equate a computer user to a diver less likely to plan their dives properly. The RYB syndrome as you called it. Planning your dive correctly is not a function of whether you use a computer, but rather how you were trained to dive. If your instructor required you to plan in detail and emphasized it enough then you will continue to do so. While my initial instructor was the pits in this regard, studying the profiles stored on my computer really helped me to revolutionize the way I dive. I now plan my dive before I hit the water... what-a-concept!

 

[MikeFerrara]

I think a computer could be a useful tool but I don't think there are many that are designed to be. I dive with a computer because that's what I have and I need to know how deep I am and for how long. The problem is The NDL is in huge numbers and the depth and time are in little tiny numbers. Also, I wouldn't think of decompressing according to the thing. I think I'll get a bottom timmer so my aging eyes can see how deep I am.

Most computers seem to be designed with the diver who doesn't want to be bothered with detailes in mind. They give you beeps and colors rather than useful information. They are designed for exactly the kind of divers our training is producing.

 

[Uncle Pug]

NetDoc once bubbled...
that I plan my dives more thoroughly than most.

Most of the time I came up with 2000 or more.

You took too much gas for the dive planned!

 

[Uncle Pug]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
They are designed for exactly the kind of divers our training is producing.

...it looks like GUE might be planning to produce those kind of divers too.

BTW... CstillRYB.

 

[GearHead]

No, Pete, you pretty succinctly understood the whole Planning part of my example in your first response. What I think you overlooked was the ascent rate and profile shape difference implied by the examples.

I would hope, as an instructor, that you chewed the Wreckmaniac who needed to ascend on your gas, or at least taught them how to not be in that pickle the next time they dive.

And Mike, if for nothing else, the "stopwatch" functionality of the Suuntos in Gauge mode is a beautiful thing on the way up! And the Vyper/Vytec line has HUGE numbers for weary eyes like yours.

NetDoc once bubbled...
that I plan my dives more thoroughly than most. I don't just jump into the water and wait to see which expires first... my air or NDL. When we were diving with the Wreckmaniacs, the least amount of gas I surfaced with was 1600psi, and ONLY because I donated my long hose to a diver who was low on air. Rather than him consider blowing off his deep stops or safety stops, I donated while he had 400 psi left just to be sure. Most of the time I came up with 2000 or more. I never went into a required deco obligation and I kept a close eye out on the class.

Many tech divers equate a computer user to a diver less likely to plan their dives properly. The RYB syndrome as you called it. Planning your dive correctly is not a function of whether you use a computer, but rather how you were trained to dive. If your instructor required you to plan in detail and emphasized it enough then you will continue to do so. While my initial instructor was the pits in this regard, studying the profiles stored on my computer really helped me to revolutionize the way I dive. I now plan my dive before I hit the water... what-a-concept!