DGX regulators - Opinions Please.

[ams511]

Sorry tbone but your remarks were disparaging whether you care to admit it or not. How is that any different than someone saying that "*put race or nationality here* are lazy or drunks"? You are perpetuating a stereotype.

You can sing the praises of German cars but everyone I know that had one had trouble with them, myself included. German cars never top the list of the most reliable cars so my evidence is not purely anecdotal. Plus are there any regulators made in Germany? Like Lorenzoid, I fail to see the relevance to the auto analogy.

As fare as Mares goes, I have none of their gear so I have no axe to grind. However what is so gimmicky about it? From what I see their gear is more straight forward than most, the first stages are diaphragms without a turret and the second stages are unbalanced and non-adjustable. Mares also continued making metal seconds when everyone else (except Poseidon and Kirby-Morgan) abandoned it. The Ruby seat is not longer being used and hasn't been sold for years. As far as pricing goes I have seen Mares gear priced very competitively online, much better than most other manufacturers. You yourself admit that the build quality is high.

What is gimicky about Poseidon? How about using up-stream designs, IP higher than other manufacturers, custom hoses, and pilot valves. The GUE people recommended against purchasing them because of these traits. Also who has the larger dealer network both in the US or world-wide, Mares or Poseidon?

I agree with you that Scubapro (and Aqualung for that matter) have product lines that are far too complicated and primarily marketing driven. However, we do live in a capitalist society and they are pursuing profits. I don't believe either company is owned or managed by Italians.

No, I am not grumpy. I no longer live in Miami, so Irma did not affect me at all. But I do feel bad about people affected by the hurricane as well as the people affected by Harvey.

Usually your posts are pretty good and informative, except when it comes to gear recommendations. Then it seems you are highly prejudicial to the gear you own or the people you deal with. I am not the first person that mentioned it. If you want to give a recommendation good or bad then be objective and specific. I don't like Mares because of *insert reason here* not because Italians design gimicky products.

 

[tbone1004]

@ams511 gimicky implies there is not a valid design choice for the feature to exist.
Poseidon uses higher IP on the Cyklon because of historic first stage regulator designs and how difficult it was to properly balance them. They found a better overall work of breathing with the higher IP than they did with the lower IP. Instead of making a regulator obsolete that is spec'd into the military and go through the horrific cost of requalification, they chose to continue use of the design. It is one regulator in their line that next year will be 60 years old
The cyklon uses an old hose design as well that predates the standardization of current scuba hoses. I disagree with the choice not to offer an adapter to a normal scuba hose, but that is their choice. I do own, but do not dive or recommend Cyklons to anyone because the high IP is very annoying and Omni is the only one who makes adapters and they are very expensive.
The Jetstream and Xstream have had aftermarket adapters for years and Poseidon no longer supplies them with custom hoses. The custom hose was originally implemented to keep the size of the regulator down as well as allow integration of an OPV. It was a design choice that stems from the improved work of breathing of the upstream pilot valve.
GUE's actual objection to the upstream valve is valid, however the Poseidon Jetstream and Xstream do not apply to their logic as it is not possible to actually lock those regulators up. You can increase the pressure as much as you want and the OPV will eventually go. If the OPV doesn't go, the valve insert will eventually break its seal and start to bleed air. The upstream pilot valve provides the lowest functioning cracking pressure of any regulator on the market as well as incredible work of breathing at depth because as the IP drops during the inhale cycle, the regulator gets easier to breathe vs. a downstream design where it gets harder. That is a standard design in industrial valves and is anything but "gimicky".
The Jetstream and Xstream share the same internal design which is 30+years old at this point, so it has been around the block a time or two and I don't know of a single failure that was reported due to the reg locking up. Again, the upstream design here is only on the pilot valve and the hose would burst before the IP reached a point that you couldn't crack the valve from the pilot valve. Very much unlike say a CCR solenoid which are often true upstream valve designs that have no release other than the valve opening. The Poseidon design has two release points for air, one of which requires almost no effort to open.

I am very passionate about the gear that I dive and recommend because there are very few options out there that actually represent good value in the market. Poseidon does not represent good value so while I feel they are truly the best regulators on the market for me, I can't recommend them to other dives over other brands because the up front cost is too high, the service cost is too high, and the regulator features are "non-standard" so you get funny looks. I have tried a ton of gear, I have worked with a lot of manufacturers, and I value the value of a product over a bunch of nonsense marketing features. Mares is in with Scubapro and Aqualung trying to throw out stuff to "one up" the other guy and it causes them to have a diluted product line and things that may or may not work. HOG no longer represents good value because the prices have gotten to the point that they are unable to really differentiate themselves from say a Dive Rite or a Hollis vs when @cerich first released them and were substantially cheaper. It's all about value for me, and Mares has no products that I am aware of that represent good value against other options on the market. I continuously look for those products and brands that represent good value and strongly recommend them so people are buying the best gear they can to suit their wants/needs as well as their dollar.

UWLD is a VERY expensive canister light, but the design and features of that light make it worth spending more money vs. lower cost options and make it a much better value than say a Light Monkey which is not an engineered product. The LM is great quality wise, but at nearly the same cost as UWLD, I couldn't in good conscience recommend someone purchase a LM canister light.
The DGX Deep6 regulators are the same, they don't represent a good value even though they are less expensive than the Deep6 Signature.

Disagree all you want, that's fine, but there is a reason that I am passionate about the equipment. The only gear manufacturer I have any monetary gain from is Deep6 if I link an affiliate code and all of the money that comes in from that go to purchasing gear that gets donated to the university that I volunteer for. I receive no other financial incentives from any other manufacturer outside of getting dealer cost or keyman from most of them through the university but I buy almost all of my gear used so it doesn't really matter. I try to keep it that way because if I got financial motivation from any particular gear manufacturer it would impart a bias towards them and skew my ability to evaluate their gear based on merit and value alone. If you have issues with a specific recommendation I make, then ask me either in public or private and I will be more than happy to let you know how I came to that conclusion.