“Demonstration skills”

[boulderjohn]

In the discussions that led to PADI publishing the article on teaching while neutrally buoyant, I mentioned mask clearing as an example of a skill that has to be taught incorrectly when instruction is done on the knees. The PADI representative was adamant that the article not say it was categorically wrong to teach on the knees, so the result was the addition of the (ridiculous) statement that if skills are introduced to students on their knees, the students should then do the skills again in horizontal trim, hopefully in the same session. That is ridiculous because it says you have to teach all the skills twice, which nobody is going to do.

 

[tursiops]

You could write a master class on defending poor quality and celebrating mediocrity.

Show me where I've done that, but I appreciate your concern.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Am I the crazy one here???
Or are all of you nuts and I’m the normal one???
This is university, probably NAUI as far as I know.
Everyone touts them as the best!
This isn’t PADI.
So, if you go by scubaboard and all the trim and NB guru’s around here, this is a major scuba felony and a complete training train wreck.
But, it appears to me that this is pretty much standard everyday stuff, business as usual industry wide, nothing wrong with any of it. They even put it up on Instagram they are so proud of it. They obviously are not members of the SB perfect trim and NB club.
So is all this PTNB stuff just an SB phenomenon because I’m not seeing it anywhere in the real world?
These are advanced leadership students doing demonstration quality skills that they can show to the new students so they can lead by example.
Aren’t universities supposed to be the highest standard in everything? IDK I never went to college so I have no idea?
I’m starting to think everything I read here is nothing but fake news.

 

[tursiops]

Am I the crazy one here???
Or are all of your nuts and I’m the normal one???
This is university, probably NAUI as far as I know.
Everyone touts them as the best!
This isn’t PADI.
So, if you go by scubaboard and all the trim and NB guru’s around here, this is a major scuba felony and a complete training train wreck.
But, it appears to me that this is pretty much standard everyday stuff, business as usual industry wide, nothing wrong with any of it. They even put it up on Instagram they are so proud of it. They obviously are not members of the SB perfect trim and NB club.
So is all this PTNB stuff just an SB phenomenon because I’m not seeing it anywhere in the real world?
These are advanced leadership students doing demonstration quality skills that they can show to the new students so they can lead by example.
Aren’t universities supposed to be the highest standard in everything? IDK I never went to college so I have no idea?
I’m starting to think everything I read here is nothing but fake news.

Can't really argue with you.
NAUI is great, but not perfect.
Universities are great, but not perfect.
ScubaBoard is great, but not perfect.
Got to know when the self-proclaimed perfect are just self-proclaiming....there is a lot of it on SB but only by a very few people who say it over and over.

 

[boulderjohn]

This is university, probably NAUI as far as I know.
Everyone touts them as the best!
This isn’t PADI.

Not everyone touts NAUI as the best.

NAUI is an agency that has limited control over their instructors. My niece was NAUI certified when she was stationed in Okinawa in the Air Force. She said she did one two hour pool session followed by a single OW dive to a maximum depth of 10 feet. That is nowhere close to NAUI standards.

As for being a university class, one of my tech students was a student at the University of Colorado. He watched one of their NAUI OW classes, and not only were the students all on their knees, the instructor was on the side of the pool in street clothes, sitting in a chair, telling the students what to do before they went under water to do it. Yes it (and other outrageous events) was reported. No problem.

About 15 years ago in a SSI class in the University of Alabama, the instructor, who was not certified but was related to the actual instructor, was at one end of the pool while her OW students were at the other end practicing doff and don exercises without her. In those exercises, students swam to the bottom of a 15-foot pool, took off their equipment, surfaced, swam back down, put the equipment back on, and surfaced. This exercise is considered extremely dangerous and is not part of the SSI program. One of the students held his breath during ascent, embolized, and died.

 

[Wheeler925]

I was taught on my knees in May. The one defense to that approach is that it would take a lot longer for people to get comfortably neutrally buoyant to start doing skills.. Plus, neutral buoyancy as a brand new diver is pretty hard in the first 15 feet(pool depths). Just sayin

 

[tursiops]

it would take a lot longer for people to get comfortably neutrally buoyant to start doing skills.

The evidence is that it does not take a "lot" longer, if at all.

neutral buoyancy as a brand new diver is pretty hard in the first 15 feet(pool depths). Just sayin

Possibly, but once you have it it is pretty easy...like riding a bicycle.

 

[SouthernSharktoothDiver]

@tursiops The counterpoint to this is that you're paying for an instructors time, and generally speaking, most scuba classes are large group, rushed affairs aiming for minimum cost and maximum profit. Is that the way it should be? No, but that's the way it is. Besides, I was trained on my skills in kneeling, and thus far have been able to use all of them in actual dive situations without trouble (except doff/don, which I still have trouble with, but this is largely because I have too many things on my arms that can easily snag my BCD straps.

 

[TMHeimer]

@tursiops The counterpoint to this is that you're paying for an instructors time, and generally speaking, most scuba classes are large group, rushed affairs aiming for minimum cost and maximum profit. Is that the way it should be? No, but that's the way it is. Besides, I was trained on my skills in kneeling, and thus far have been able to use all of them in actual dive situations without trouble (except doff/don, which I still have trouble with, but this is largely because I have too many things on my arms that can easily snag my BCD straps.

I posted this on a long ago thread about being fine after learning on my knees. Funny, I too had trouble with the doff & don. Anyway, I think the neutral idea would probably benefit most those who signed up for OW and weren't comfortable in water to begin with. Otherwise, it's just my opinion that it doesn't matter much which way you were trained.

 

[tursiops]

Time to hear from some folks who were NOT trained on their knees....