Defective BCD in Confined Dive

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The business model is fine but they have to be upfront on pricing and not have a fit every time someone does not buy equipment from them. If safety is a concern they can always demand that they perform the inspection on the equipment themselves and maybe even demand a fee for doing so. But to blatantly deny someone access to classes and/or trips just because they did not get the equipment business is totally unacceptable and downright short-sighted IMO.

 
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I dont have any problem with them charging anything they want, it is absolutly their right. If the customer is told from the begining that if they buy their gear the price is $$, if they decide not to than the price is $$$$ they can decide if it is worth it and move forward or move on. To spring it on them after they have already started their cert classes (or, like I am sure this lds sees it, after services have already been rendered) is just plain dishonest.
 
My wife and I have been doing our OW classes for the past 3 weeks and it seems that I've been handed a defective BCD from the get-go. I guess defective is too strong a word because it does inflate and keeps me afloat 90% of the time but the issue is that, because it's a very old BCD, the cummerbund velcro closure does not engage very well anymore and tends to "rip" apart when there's pressure applied from my torso area. There's also no adjustable snap closure in front of the cummerbund to keep it secure.

I've approached my instructor with this issue and he said they really can't do anything with it since it's the only size they had available that would fit me (it's a M/L). I don't have anything bad to say about the class or the instruction because they are very good and we're learning a lot but wouldn't people think that the class can benefit better if they offered better equipment to train in?

I wonder how it would be perceived if I jumped in there with a harness/wing setup? :D


The scenario is simply unacceptable. Demand a better BCD.
 
While my LDS (a Scubapro authorized dealer) doesn't deeply discount stuff (basically 10 percent off if you buy the package) they do other things, like discount or give free training, provide free rental of equipment I haven't yet purchased or that has not arrived (loaning me a computer for a couple weeks, for example) and give free airfills and free future training... The emphasis of the shop is on training and safety first and commerce second... which, of course, encourages me to shop with them... that's how it works.
 
I was in SixGears first OW class. I did complete the OW with the original LDS, and liked the staff and DM's. However, I can verify that during our classroom session (and not before) we were informed that we paid a discounted price for cert. based on the idea that we would buy personal gear from that LDS. We were warned that we had to pay full price for cert. if we didn't have personal gear from the LDS by the checkout dives (when the LDS owners would be present). While I like the LDS in general, this policy really irritated me. If I hadn't already purchased my gear from the LDS prior to class, I would have probably followed SixGears lead. I understand the shop needs to make money to survive, but I found the "different prices" policy to be very shady and it took a while to wash the bad taste out of my mouth.

Mark, the only good thing about that LDS is that they take stuff back even if you use it and give you a full refund. So I returned all my stuff. It was a shame that it had to come to that because I was really enjoying the class and the instructors (and the instruction) was excellent.

 
The LDS in discussion tells you the OW course is $200 provided you buy your primary equipment from them i.e. Mask, Snorkel, Fin, Boots and Weights including study material . But they didn't tell me this until I asked them if there a cost if I didn't buy the equipment from them and I was told that it would be $400 if I had my own gear for the OW Certification, so if i didn't ask, I wouldn't know. They would not budge off MSRP on the above mentioned items so they made a good amount of money off just the initial purchase since I ended up buying an Atomic mask, ScubaPro TwinJet Max fins, ScubaPro boots, etc.

I was at the LDS yesterday looking at packaged personal equipment prices. There were 3 levels: platinum, gold, and bronze. At the platinum level the equipment was all top of the line - $370. At the bronze level it was workable, nothing outstanding.

But, the bronze level mask, fins, snorkel and booties came to just $99.

While it is not my nature to buy the bottom end of anything, as an entry price to SCUBA, $260 for the course + $99 for the personal equipment isn't a bad price.

As it was explained to me by my instructor 20 years ago, "SCUBA is an equipment intensive sport".

Richard
 
...
From the very get go, I had the feeling that this LDS was a completely commercial operation that was just out to make money off unsuspecting customers with hidden costs and lies. By and large a very deceitful operation. My brother who had also done his OW pool dives with me took a referral from them and decided to complete his OW certification elsewhere because he didn't get a good vibe from them but I had decided on giving them a second chance and completed my OW certification with them. My advice to any unsuspecting new divers would be to STAY AWAY........ I am now pursuing my AOW with another LDS that isn't too far away.

:popcorn:

I'm waiting for more victims to come out of the woodwork. This would definitely leave a bad taste in my mouth even if they were upfront with me. I guess this is their way of trying to lock in a customer for life.

 
My wife and I have been doing our OW classes for the past 3 weeks and it seems that I've been handed a defective BCD from the get-go. I guess defective is too strong a word because it does inflate and keeps me afloat 90% of the time but the issue is that, because it's a very old BCD, the cummerbund velcro closure does not engage very well anymore and tends to "rip" apart when there's pressure applied from my torso area. There's also no adjustable snap closure in front of the cummerbund to keep it secure.

I've approached my instructor with this issue and he said they really can't do anything with it since it's the only size they had available that would fit me (it's a M/L). I don't have anything bad to say about the class or the instruction because they are very good and we're learning a lot but wouldn't people think that the class can benefit better if they offered better equipment to train in?

I wonder how it would be perceived if I jumped in there with a harness/wing setup? :D

Hola from Cancun, Diveshops should have several bcd types and several sizes for each type of bcd, yes I have encountered sometimes people that need special fit and we only have one xxl bcd but medium or medium large are the bcd sizes we have the most of as well as large and l/xl, and your instructors response for this is very poor. Get your money back and go somewhere else, now about wings, wich are awesome for great bouyancy achievement maybe get them later when you have more experience this are great for cavern diving.
hope this helps
 
Thanks for chiming in from Cancun dive_pro. :D

As I've mentioned before, my wife and I are way past this experience and are now certified. I'm just trying to keep this thread alive in the hopes that someone in my area would come across it first and think twice about using this LDS. I may be able to save someone some grief in trying to deal with these types of shops.

One comment I'd like to make though from re-reading the experiences (page 3-4) is that someone made a comment about us and the LDS being a "bad fit" for each other. This type of comment seems to come across very often in the scuba world specially when dealing with shops, instructors, etc. and is the unappealing side of scuba. In general this may be true because every shop or instructor is different and, thank goodness that there are many to choose from (for me anyway). In my opinion businesses are better suited to try and "fit" with as many people as possible and not just those that they can bait into spending money in their respective stores. Even the LDS owner subscribed to this notion that there needed to be a "fit" between them and their customers and they were happy to sever the relationship with me because I didn't fall for their tactics. To me this is just arrogance or maybe foolishness. Again, IMHO. :D
 
I guess defective is too strong a word because it does inflate and keeps me afloat 90% of the time but the issue is that, because it's a very old BCD, the cummerbund velcro closure does not engage very well anymore and tends to "rip" apart when there's pressure applied from my torso area. There's also no adjustable snap closure in front of the cummerbund to keep it secure. I wonder how it would be perceived if I jumped in there with a harness/wing setup?
Although the experience is in the past, it is an issue that comes up more frequently than it should, and student divers are not always aware of how vigorous they can and should be in attempting to correct it. A shop or instructor offering diving instruction, where provision of equipment is part of the contracted price of the course, has a reasonable obligation to provide safe, functional equipment, independent of any other business motive such as impressing stduents and motivating them to purchase their gear from the shop. It is nonetheless common practice for many shops to use older, more extensively used, equipment for confined water training - pool work. The situation you experienced as far as the gear condition for your confined water work is not altogether unheard of. The often high chlorine content is hard on the gear, student lack of familiarity may lead to some level of unintentional abuse, and shops conducting a high volume of training put a great deal of wear and tear on equipment. Frequently, shops will rotate rental gear from their rental inventory to their pool inventory, when the gear is no longer apporpriate for rental, but still functional. I train students through a shop that maintains an extensive rental inventiory, an equally extensive stock of gear used only for open water checkouts, and a third inventory of gear for pool work. New gear is put into the rental inventory as needed, and rental gear is moved to check-out stock as appropriate. Check-out stock may be moved to pool work, and gear no longer sutitable or repairable for pool work is retired. We keep approximately 20 BCDs at the pool for classes, with a variety of sizes. At times, we may have an entire class (8 students) using M/L BCDs and there aren't enough in the pool stock to go around on a given evening. Usually, we will attempt to use an adjacent size, rather than taking one of the BCDs from our OW check-out stock, but will do that if necessary. I am not sure I agree with Jim's early comment that the absence if a quick release waist buckle was a MAJOR defect for a pool BCD. But that absence, coupled with a poor fitting BCD with worn velcro is not ideal by any means. As for a student diver showing up with a BP/W for pool work in the middle of confined water training, it would probably raise some eyebrows. The same with showing up with gear purchased elsewhere. Nothing wrong with that in concept, though. With a BP/W rig, when all other students are in jackets, an instructor may ask that it not be used, as the rest of the class, and the instructor, will be in a jacket BCD. That should be a matter of discussion, not confrontation from the instructor.

Any student in the situation you described during training has a very legitimate basis to speak directly to the shop owner, if the instructor is unable to address the equipment issue, and request that a fully functional BCD be made available- you were paying for it as part of the course. The good news - you got through the course and the experience. Hopefully other student divers will benefit from the comments in the thread.
 
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