Defective BCD in Confined Dive

[Hoomi]

Our BC's use Schrader valves for the fill control?

Every bicyclist knows SERIOUS people use Presta!

(Yeah, I know Presta valves would not work in this application...)

The tech made some comment about cleaning a bit of corrosion out of it, so it may not be the valve itself that is the problem, but rather the seat may be degraded and allowing air to seep by. I'd think if it was as simple as just replacing a valve core, he'd have done that already. Schrader valve cores are too darn cheap to bother trying to clean; the time spent cleaning them costs more in labor than the valve costs.

I fix a lot of complicated stuff for a living, and for many years kept old cars running because we simply couldn't afford a new car, or the cost of a professional mechanic. If I end up replacing the inflator hose (and the new ones have some nicer features I wouldn't mind having anyway, such as better low-pressure inflator hose management from the regulator), I'll take the old inflator and disassemble it to see how it's all put together.

i ain't no rokkit syentest, but i is a rokkit teknishun...

 

[MarKon]

I was in SixGears first OW class. I did complete the OW with the original LDS, and liked the staff and DM's. However, I can verify that during our classroom session (and not before) we were informed that we paid a discounted price for cert. based on the idea that we would buy personal gear from that LDS. We were warned that we had to pay full price for cert. if we didn't have personal gear from the LDS by the checkout dives (when the LDS owners would be present). While I like the LDS in general, this policy really irritated me. If I hadn't already purchased my gear from the LDS prior to class, I would have probably followed SixGears lead. I understand the shop needs to make money to survive, but I found the "different prices" policy to be very shady and it took a while to wash the bad taste out of my mouth.

 

[danthemanj]

I'd like to add to this thread so that people are wary when they deal with this LDS.

I did my OW certification from the same LDS that SixGears did it from. I can tell you from personal experience that the instructors at this LDS are stellar but I cannot say the same about its owners. I recently completed my OW certification with them at Dutch Springs and was told that several of the folks that did the OW class with me had signed up for the AOW class and if I decided to do the AOW class with them the cost would be a discounted $125 instead of $200. Nowhere was the purchase of dive equipment mentioned as a pre-requisite to doing the AOW class with the LDs. I told the owners that I would have to think about it and get back to them. I later found out that only 1 out of the group of 8 folks that did the OW class had actually signed up for the AOW class. A couple of weeks later I went back to the store to look at some gear in addition to picking up my PADI OW certification since the owners had had my certification shipped to the store instead of my home (I guess that was a way for them to get me into the store). I went through some ScubaPro equipment with one of the owners and asked them if they would be willing to work with me on pricing if I purchased a BC, High end Computer and Reg set (all ScubaPro) from them. They came up with a figure that really didn't add up to any discount at all so I told them that I would get back to them, took my OW certificate from them and left the store. A few days later I got a call from one of the store owners asking me for my zipcode (they already had all my information) following which I was asked if I wanted to do a Shark River Dive with them the coming weekend and also if I had decided on the equipment purchase. I really didn't want to dive with their rental equipment because personally I think everything that I have every trained in or rented from them, from their regulators to the BCs have been pieces of cr@p so I declined the Shark River dive and told the owner that I didn't want to purchase the equipment just yet because I wanted to decide on the equipment and the money. A couple of weeks later, my wife decided on funding my entire equipment purchase as a Birthday gift and I purchased the equipment from a highly recommended Authorized ScubaPro dealer outside the state. Since I now had the equipment I decided to go ahead with my AOW certification. I called the store yesterday to inquire about the AOW class and spoke to one of the owners. When asked about the equipment purchase, I told her that my wife had bought me all the equipment from an Authorized dealer and I didn't need any equipment for the AOW with the exception of the study material. When I mentioned this, I noticed a complete change in attitude on the part of the owner on the phone. She told me that unfortunately for me, by buying my equipment from another store, my wife had jeopardized my relationship with the store and that I could not do my AOW class with them. So I asked the owner if I could dive with them during one of their pool sessions and pay for the dive / pool and she flatly refused indicating that I pretty much couldn't dive them with going forward and all this because I did not buy my equipment from them.

From the very get go, I had the feeling that this LDS was a completely commercial operation that was just out to make money off unsuspecting customers with hidden costs and lies. By and large a very deceitful operation. My brother who had also done his OW pool dives with me took a referral from them and decided to complete his OW certification elsewhere because he didn't get a good vibe from them but I had decided on giving them a second chance and completed my OW certification with them. My advice to any unsuspecting new divers would be to STAY AWAY........ I am now pursuing my AOW with another LDS that isn't too far away.

 

[ScubaSteve]

We can defend each other as divers and we can defend each LDS.....bottom line is this: We have the right to go where ever we want for our equipment purchases and training AND the LDS has every right to come up with stupid rules such as these and make stupid business decisions such as they did.

Everybody has been within their right to do what they did, so I believe that this LDS will benefit greatly from the sign that will eventually be put in their window: OUT OF BUSINESS - THANKS FOR NOTHING. Somehow, they will blame their demise on their customers (or lack there of). I will personally be there to toast the event. They sound like they deserve it.

 

[Down4Adive]

This story has made me feel very lucky to have had such a good experience with my lds. I know that the OPs experience is not the norm, but how good did I have it. My hat is off to him for not letting them sour him on diving. My lds gives very good discounts on gear if you are getting or were certified with them, but the cert class price is the same for everybody. I will be buying gear from them for a long time to come because of my great cert class experience. I guess this shop just doesn't get the fact that you have to earn customer loyalty you can't just trick people into it.

 

[k ellis]

Down I feel the same as down4adive. My shop has been outstanding and I am dedicated to it through the loyalty on BOTH sides of the counter. They are loyal to their customers and we are loyal to him

 

[sixgears]

Glad that a couple of people had chimed in regarding their experiences. I thought I was just being my paranoid and cheap self.

As I've said before this LDS has been around for a good while. They also stated that the person I spoke with initially (the owner's son) was a very experienced person in the business and they were "surprised" that he did not mention the pricing structure in the beginning. This was the same person that I spoke with who told me, while shopping in their store, that Scubapro did not make any masks with a black skirt.

I'm still amazed that this place is still in business. I guess P.T. Barnum was right ...

 

[Down4Adive]

six, sounds like you made the right decision to cut your losses and get out. you might want to check to be sure they didnt pick your pocket on the way out. The first shop in town that I talked to about getting my cert gave me that "sell em hard and push em through" feeling. Which was later confirmed by a couple of friends that used them (and were charged a lot more than me, but I didn't have the heart to tell them). After reading your story I wonder if I would be a diver if I hadn't gone elsewhere. The word will get around on them soon enough. You may be in a large area with lots of new people to take advantage of, (which sounds like the only reason they could still be in business), but the world is getting a lot smaller. Just look, there is a guy on the coast of california that knows to watch out for a shop in jersey.

 

[rstofer]

One thing to consider when the LDS wants to bundle training and equipment purchase is the cost of the training. If it is being offered quite cheap, bundling may not be a bad business model if it involves just the personal gear (mask, fins, snorkel, etc).

My LDS doesn't bundle AFAIK. They have a list of personal equipment the student must have (mask, fins, snorkel, octo keeper, compass) but there is no requirement to buy it from them. OTOH, the PADI OW course is about $170. There is no mention about purchasing more advanced equipment (BC, regs, etc) and all equipment can be rented for the course for about $50. Total cost of the class = $170/class, $50/rental, $40/course material or $260. Reasonable, but certainly not cheap.

I like this business model. Sure, we bought the personal equipment from the LDS. And we left a lot of money on the table compared to, say, Leisure Pro. But sometimes it isn't worth wringing every dollar out of a deal.

Richard

 

[danthemanj]

The LDS in discussion tells you the OW course is $200 provided you buy your primary equipment from them i.e. Mask, Snorkel, Fin, Boots and Weights including study material . But they didn't tell me this until I asked them if there a cost if I didn't buy the equipment from them and I was told that it would be $400 if I had my own gear for the OW Certification, so if i didn't ask, I wouldn't know. They would not budge off MSRP on the above mentioned items so they made a good amount of money off just the initial purchase since I ended up buying an Atomic mask, ScubaPro TwinJet Max fins, ScubaPro boots, etc.