Deep Diving on Air

[MauiScubaSteve]

I do not want to go deeper, my name is Richie, nice to meet you

So Richie, your "status" says you hope to be a DM someday, your "badge" says DM Candidate, your profile only says you are OW certified and one of your posts on the 19th speaks of having 47 dives to date. Unless you have been to 130 feet deep already, it sounds to me like you do want to go deeper.

 

[boulderjohn]

The specific issue of exceeding the ATA of 1.6 that occurs deeper than 200 ft would seem to be something that does not come into play at 165 ft. Y

Charlie, I don't know if you mistyped this sentence. Maybe you meant something else. Could you please take a few minutes and explain what you mean by "exceeding the ATA of 1.6 that occurs deeper than 200 ft" and why you seem to think that this is what everyone has been talking about in this thread.

The fact that Charlie typed "ATA" instead of "PPO2" seems pretty minor to me.

I was not sure how to respond to his obvious error because I was not sure what the error was. You seem to think he accidentally typed ATA when he meant PPO₂. Let's say you are right. In that case, he has totally and completely misunderstood the content of this thread. How many of the posts have been warning of the danger of going past 1.6 PPO₂? I don't remember any off the top of my head. I certainly haven't mentioned it as a primary concern, if I mentioned it at all.

We have talked about inadequate gas reserves, narcosis, lack of proper equipment, lack of proper training--lots of stuff. If the only thing he got out of it was a barely mentioned (if at all) concern about PPO₂, then he really missed something.

So I will try to get him to answer the question rather than have you answer it for him: what did you mean by that phrase?

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

I was not sure how to respond to his obvious error because I was not sure what the error was. You seem to think he accidentally typed ATA when he meant PPO₂. Let's say you are right. In that case, he has totally and completely misunderstood the content of this thread. How many of the posts have been warning of the danger of going past 1.6 PPO₂? I don't remember any off the top of my head. I certainly haven't mentioned it as a primary concern, if I mentioned it at all.

Not trying to answer any question you have posed for Charlie59, but ...

I am quite fine with limiting discussions of Deep Air Diving to 1.6 PPO2.

(post #57)

And then there is your mention of deeper than 200 foot diving, in the post immediately before his 1.6 post, which perhaps led him to kind of hint that he had no intention of getting close to 1.6 PPO2.

I think "advocate' is a very mild term. Have you read the number of threads he has started on this topic? Have you read some of the rapturous posts about how great it is to go beyond 200 feet on a single tank in other threads? Have you seen how many threads have been closed because he has so actively advocated a diving activity not endorsed by any agency, which is a violation of the TOS?

We seem to be running into the either-or fallacy here, which seems to be pretty common on ScubaBoard lately. It isn't that dives are either safe or unsafe. A standard NDL dive is extremely safe, not not perfectly so. Going a little deeper and/or longer increases the risk, but it isn't like your going to die if you drop to 145 feet for a minute. The deeper you go and the longer you stay, the more the risk increases. When people beat their chests and brag about going all the way down to 150 feet (10 feet more than the real limit of recreational diving) for a few minutes, I have to admit that I do snicker a little.

The first real question is where does one truly draw the line? If you have the minimal training required to understand the U.S. Navy tables for air diving, do the required decompression required for the minor transgressions of NDLs, and have enough gas to do it safely, I don't have a real problem with it at all. If you are scooting down to 220 feet with a single AL 80 and hoping nothing goes wrong, I think you've gone too far.

 

[Dan G]

Dan G,

I can see why you would find this thread confusing. There is a lot of noise and other nonsense going on here.

To me, there are two lessons on this thread:

1) Deep air bounce diving, particularly done in a single tank is pretty much farm animal stupid.
2) No matter how farm animal stupid something is, there will always be someone coming out of the wood work to defend or advocate the idea. And it doesn't take long to figure out who the advocates are. What is completely baffling is why those people advocate for the stupid behavior/activity.

It actually reminds me a lot of when I was a teenager.. when friends would try to rationalize drunk driving.

This is not to say that I have any objections to people doing deep air bounce dives on single tanks. I only have objections to people I care about doing deep air bounce dives...

Thanks for the feedback without flaming. I do not feel confused by the thread. I am confused my the specific post I quoted. Here seems to be the pattern to this and other threads like it:
1) "diving deep on air with no real training nor any back up plan/ contingencies/ redundencies is a bad idea"
2) "don't criticize deep air diving, I've been doing it for years"
3) "I'm just saying that a person should have things in place in case something goes wrong"
4) "why do you insist that going to 200' on air is a bad thing?"
5) "I'm not, just have a plan"
6) "you techies should go to hell. I don't need trimix to dive to 200'"
7) go to step 3
8) repeat

 

[VooDooGasMan]

Hale Blackvans is just trying to fit in and since you look at his profile he looks no older than 12. His sister will dive deeper than him the way he post but that's besides the point.


I agree Dan G

 

[boulderjohn]

Not trying to answer any question you have posed for Charlie59, but ...

So you found one post in which you, a deep air advocate on his side, mentioned the 1.6 PPO₂ limit. Did anyone else bring it up?

And then there is your mention of deeper than 200 foot diving, in the post immediately before his 1.6 post, which perhaps led him to kind of hint that he had no intention of getting close to 1.6 PPO2.

There was nothing in that post that mentioned the 1.6 PPO₂ limit. I assure you I didn't give it a thought. My reference was to VDGM's frequent posts on the pure joy of going past levels like that. Perhaps I should have instead gone to the post by another deep air bounce dive advocate who talked about passing that barrier for the sake of the sheer feeling of joy went he gets back to the surface still alive. No doubt about it, the adrenaline rush must be great.

If he thinks 1.6 PPO₂ is the only thing we have been talking about in this thread, then I have concerns.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Hale Blackvans is just trying to fit in and since you look at his profile he looks no older than 12. His sister will dive deeper than him the way he post but that's besides the point.

So is deep diving supposed to be some test of manhood or something?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[VooDooGasMan]

Not at all, Blackvans has been involved and hale has called him and I am telling hale that he is a young new diver and is very Interested in this diving or he would not be posting on this thread. The only other reason is Blackvans is a troll and should be removed from thread.

 

[Charlie59]

Excuse me for my error in the earlier post. Yes, I was referring to the toxicity of oxygen at a partial pressure of O2 greater than or equal to 1.6 atmospheres. The point was in relation to equating a dive of 165 ft to one of 300 ft. At 165 ft breathing air, you deal with narcosis and equipment issues and at 300 you add oxygen toxicity. Sudden loss of consciousness due to oxygen toxicity or narcosis is not likely at 165 ft.

However, as stated on the DAN website, "A dive to 80 feet in cold, dirty water can be far more hazardous than a dive to twice the depth in warm, clear waters".

 

[Charlie59]

In the article, "How deep is too deep?"

Let me just say that no one should dive deeper than they feel comfortable diving and certainly without knowing the risks you take. I would just say, again, that I think it is better to respect the difficulties of deep diving than to fear it. Also, I don't think that anyone's capability or level of braveness is determined by how deep you have dived.