Deep Diving on Air

[DevonDiver]

...practices not currently taught by mainstream agencies....concepts like deep air, independant doubles, solo, deco light, yada yada.

Deep Air - taught up to 50m. 'Alternative' would be dives beyond 50m, for most agencies.

Independent Doubles - taught.

Solo - taught.

Deco light - taught.


Other than 50m> air dives, this is all pretty mainstream.

The only thing 'alternative' is doing on the basis of internet discussions, rather than a comprehensive training course.

 

[Hank49]

Bob,
Whether or not it's tolerated by the owner, management, or members of the site isn't the point.

And in the terms of service it says "any post ADVOCATING" dangerous diving, not discussing it.

When I came to Scubaboard I had been doing a lot of deep diving on air. I learned a lot by reading what the anti deep air divers said on here. Where eise would one get so many opinions and experience based info?

You can't hide it. Many like myself will do it out of curiosity. It's better to be open about it so they can learn.

 

[DaleC]

I don't know about the legal aspects of this. It would seem to me that the solo sub forum (or the DIY sub forum) could easily be viewed that way but it isn't and the participants there seem pretty adept at self regulating discussion in a reasonable way. A properly worded opt in and some clear content expectations would explain SB's intention pretty well.
The funny thing is I don't do deep bounce dives (probably because of my locale and age) yet I would like to be able to read about and participate in such discussions without all the chaff. Perhaps I'm odd but I have no problem discerning what is viable for me and what is not. It seems to me though that such discussions can never even get off of the ground without others piping in to protect the lowest denominator diver who can't think or act for themselves. IMO this only serves to dumb down the content of the board.
I want to expand my knowledge base of dive practices, alternative and mainsteam and learn what I can. I really don't need people thinking for me or placing me at the same level as an entry level, DM/agency dependant, mentallly lazy and emotionally immature diver by quashing the discussion.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I understand where you guys are coming from. I wouldn't, personally, have an issue with an opt-in forum.

But I do think any discussion like this needs to examine both the pros and cons of such a suggestion. I doubt you were ignored with your requests. Having been a staff member in the past, I can assure you that member requests are not ignored. But any requests like this are going to be discussed from a perspective that goes well beyond the wishes of a few members.

Like it or not, ScubaBoard is a business. And like any business, it has a mission and a target audience. The decisions it makes will reflect what the folks who run this board consider the best interest of both the business and the wider audience.

Try looking at the bigger picture ... because there are downsides to what you're suggesting ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Rick Murchison]

I don't know about the legal aspects of this. It would seem to me that the solo sub forum (or the DIY sub forum) could easily be viewed that way but it isn't and the participants there seem pretty adept at self regulating discussion in a reasonable way. A properly worded opt in and some clear content expectations would explain SB's intention pretty well.

I'm no lawyer but I don't think there'd be any liability in discussing solo diving, as long as you don't directly encourage someone to make a 400 ft solo dive on a single 80...

... I would like to be able to read about and participate in such discussions...

This forum (Advanced) is here just for that.

... without all the chaff... discussions can never even get off of the ground without others piping in to protect the lowest denominator ... only serves to dumb down the content of the board ... quashing the discussion...

Good luck with that! 'tis the nature of the beast. Learning to ignore "chaff" is part of the growth process here; keeping the meaty discussion going in the midst of the chaff is an art form of sorts - think of it as a worthy challenge.
Bottom line... we don't need a "protected area" to discuss solo (or deep air) diving.

Rick

 

[Akimbo]

I understand where you guys are coming from. I wouldn't, personally, have an issue with an opt-in forum…

Bob, I don’t understand the logic. If Deep Air and Bounce Diving should be in an opt-in forum, then why shouldn’t all the tech, rebreather, commercial, and shark forums? Besides, what does opt-in prevent? Opt-in protects the solo forum from mindless Cool-Aid drinker protests that dominate posts like this, but doesn’t stop anyone on the Internet who requests an Opts-in, even if their intent is to dive the Lusitania without attending Scuba 101.

The whole "don’t talk about it attitude" in the training industry is simply Ostrich-think. Perhaps an open sub-forum of the Advanced Diving forum for Controversial & Experimental Diving Techniques might make sense. That forum heading could include the get training, it’s dangerous, and a stick to the facts warnings.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Bob, I don’t understand the logic. If Deep Air and Bounce Diving should be in an opt-in forum, then why shouldn’t all the tech, rebreather, commercial, and shark forums? Besides, what does opt-in prevent? Opt-in protects the solo forum from mindless Cool-Aid drinker protests that dominate posts like this, but doesn’t stop anyone on the Internet who requests an Opts-in, even if their intent is to dive the Lusitania without attending Scuba 101.

Nothing prevents mindless Cool-Aid drinker protests ... just as nothing has prevented the anti-DIR crowd on ScubaBoard from dominating every discussion on the DIR forum all these years. The real DIR divers don't even post there anymore ... it just got too hard to try talking about anything without some mindless Cool-Aid drinking protester jumping in to complain about how he once got insulted by some long-hose dude wearing a black drysuit (so he obviously represents every DIR diver out there, right?).

The whole "don’t talk about it attitude" in the training industry is simply Ostrich-think. Perhaps an open sub-forum of the Advanced Diving forum for Controversial & Experimental Diving Techniques might make sense. That forum heading could include the get training, it’s dangerous, and a stick to the facts warnings.

There have been endless deep air dive threads on multiple forums on ScubaBoard ... several just in the past three or four weeks. So we ARE talking about it ... what you seem to be objecting to is dissenting opinions.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[dumpsterDiver]

...The real DIR divers don't even post there anymore ... it just got too hard to try talking about anything without some mindless Cool-Aid drinking protester jumping in to complain about how he once got insulted by some long-hose dude wearing a black drysuit (so he obviously represents every DIR diver out there, right?).

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

That really cracked me up... but just for clarification...I thought that the DIR guys were the ones drinking the cool aid???? It gets soo confusing on the internet.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I seriously doubt they are going to make a deep air/ bounce dive section.

In those "special-group" sections, the rules prevent people from attacking the basic idea or premise of the section itself. Without the attacks and questions that people raise about Deep Air, I would worry that this section would disseminate a very one sided and dangerous message.

 

[Akimbo]

Nothing prevents mindless Cool-Aid drinker protests ...

You missed the point:

… Opt-in protects the solo forum from mindless Cool-Aid drinker protests that dominate posts like this, ...

It prevents it in the Solo forum because they can lose their access privileges — the only advantage of an Opt-in forum I can think of.

Forum: Solo Divers
A no-troll area for divers to discuss this growing trend in our sport. Whether you do it by choice or to facilitate other divers, there are important topics to address. To join this forum, click here.

…There have been endless deep air dive threads on multiple forums on ScubaBoard ... several just in the past three or four weeks. So we ARE talking about it ... what you seem to be objecting to is dissenting opinions...

Not really, it is the high ratio of dogma to factual information that makes it tedious and generally uninformative. If negative comments dealt with risk analysis it would be productive compared to “only fools” would consider it. These subjects are far less dangerous than tech and rebreather diving? Why are they treated so differently?

DIR is a little different because it is such a regimented system with a few people that project an unjustifiable attitude based on indoctrination rather than real experience. There are lots of solutions that are proven to work.