Deep Air - Here we go again....

[Slamfire]

I moved to ohio from hawaii just recently. Why you got to point out the depressive nature of local diving around here :mooner:

My condolences to you. I hope there was a very good reason for such a sacrifice. I saw indications that people drive from far away just to get to Gilboa. There were many out of state licence plates. Lots of people camping in there, and as far campsites go it was unremarkable -- people are not going there for the camping, they're probably camping because the drive is too long for a day trip. The place was packed. That's why I was saying that, among quarries, it must be very good.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

As far as I know, the limits set for air diving (for adequately qualified divers) by many training agencies or federations, including TDI, BSAC, FFESSM/CMAS and even DSAT are in the 50 to 60 meters range (165 to 200 feet).

Professional Scuba Association International, Philippines, Oriental Mindoro, Puerto Galera, Big Lalaguna


these guys teach air down to 240 feet and I know they used to train people to go to 300 ft on air

http://www.floridacaves.com/fortyfathommap.JPG

I guess they still do 300 ft training on air

 

[Sloth]

My condolences to you. I hope there was a very good reason for such a sacrifice. I saw indications that people drive from far away just to get to Gilboa. There were many out of state licence plates. Lots of people camping in there, and as far campsites go it was unremarkable -- people are not going there for the camping, they're probably camping because the drive is too long for a day trip. The place was packed. That's why I was saying that, among quarries, it must be very good.

Yes, I got married to my high school sweetheart so its all good

She is going through open water in the quarries so i'll probably be spending a lot of time there....cant wait

 

[Sas]

I could be wrong, but I think BSAC treats air down to 150 feet as recreational.

I don't know where the distinction is drawn between recreational and technical there. The training works differently. Ocean Diver (OW) is 20m depth rating, Sports Diver (AOW + Rescue) is decompression diving down to 35m, then Dive Leader (~DM I guess) is 50m. You pretty much get decompression training as part of AOW and it's not really considered 'technical'.

It's weird to me all the fuss made about decompression diving and 'technical diving' that I've seen on certain forums as it's pretty much something I have been trained to do as part of recreational scuba diving from early on.

What I definitely think is true is that in Europe people are much more open to going deeper.

And locally to me as well. Most people I know who dive in the 40-50m range use air not trimix. And they have been diving for years and years pretty much weekly. Not making a judgement either way here (as I don't dive deep nor do I have trimix training so not really qualified to give an opinion), just mentioning local practices.

 

[DaleC]

Oh come on Sas, you won't be taken seriously until you firmly adopt a polarized position and refuse to consider the opposing viewpoint.

 

[Sas]

Oh come on Sas, you won't be taken seriously until you firmly adopt a polarized position and refuse to consider the opposing viewpoint.

You must know by now that I am very opinionated. However, I just don't know enough about this issue other than I think that trimix is ideal if narcosis is going to be an issue. But as to what actually is "deep air" well I don't really know having no trimix training nor any diving deeper than 42m. I think that narcosis does occur below about 30m (and sometimes shallower) with differing degrees of effect on people. It's something that should form part of one's risk analysis for a dive. Some people are happy with more risk (and therefore deeper diving on air), and others are very conservative.

Unless someone's greater propensity to risk is going to impact on others negatively then people should stay out of others' business, really. It's like how I like solo diving. Some people would consider that very risky and unacceptable level of risk but I see these same people diving down to 40m on a single tank, which I consider risky and wouldn't do myself.

 

[kanonfodr]

Yes, I got married to my high school sweetheart so its all good

She is going through open water in the quarries so i'll probably be spending a lot of time there....cant wait

:hijackedthread:
And your high school sweetheart couldn't stomach the though of moving from Ohio to Hawaii?!?! j/k, Sloth.

Back to our regularly scheduled mudslinging.

Peace,
Greg

 

[Slamfire]

Yes, I got married to my high school sweetheart so its all good

She is going through open water in the quarries so i'll probably be spending a lot of time there....cant wait

In that case, congratulations. Is she doing OW in Twin Quarries? You might want to take to Gilboa insted. When I was doing my research about OH, I read that Twin Quarries silt out quite fast and early during the day because of the shallowness. I was reading that you have to be in early before the classes arrive in order to get good viz.

But as to what actually is "deep air" well I don't really know having no trimix training nor any diving deeper than 42m.

Let's see, 42 m is... *carry the one...* yep, that pretty much puts you on our side of things. Welcome to the Super Friends. The Legion of Doom will not go deeper than 33 m on air. I'm Aquaman BTW.

 

[Rhone Man]

It's weird to me all the fuss made about decompression diving and 'technical diving' that I've seen on certain forums as it's pretty much something I have been trained to do as part of recreational scuba diving from early on.

I was thinking about this recently (the fuss people make over mandatory decompression stops); I was diving with this operation and the had a new trainee divemaster with us. When I say trainee divemaster, at this stage he had his PADI OW and nothing else. So we do two deep long dives, and everyone is on nitrox except him. So come the end of the dives he has accumulated a 9 minute decompression stop, and we leave him under the boat to get on with it. The (North American trained) part of me is saying 'this is outrageous - allowing an open water diver to accumulate decent sized deco stop!' Then when I am chatting with him on the boat afterwards he tells me a year ago he was serving in the British Infantry taking part in the surge in Afghanistan. Sitting under a boat in the clear waters of the Med is a day in the park compared to being shot at by Taliban insurgents. It did get me thinking much more along the lines of 'what's the big deal?'.

 

[Puffer Fish]

If you paid attention to the details, you would realize that the primary cause of death in diving fatalities has nothing to do with END.

According to the Undersea & Hyperbaric Medicine Journal, November/December 2008 issue, which examined 947 diving fatalities for the time period 1992 to 2003, the top three "triggers" causing death were: insufficient gas (41% of the total fatalities) and entrapment (20% of fatalities). The most common disabling agent was rapid, emergency ascent which occurred in 55% of the fatalities.

In the almost 1000 deaths over 9 years, END wasn't even listed as a minor factor let alone a major one!

Yes, nitrogen narcosis can be a problem, but don't make it into the Boogy Man that's the leading cause of death for divers. IT'S NOT. Yes it's a factor, but get real.

The key expression is "Cause of death"... obviously your end depth would never be your cause of death. And as with don't have any Narcosis meters on people, we have absolutely no way of knowing how more or less Narc'ed someone was.

However, if it effected your ability to manage gas, to get your self un-entrapped or put you in a position where you needed to make a rapid ascent.. well then it would not be the cause of any death, it would be the cause of the situation that lead to the cause of death.