Deep Air - Here we go again....

[Sloth]

At age 65 I don't do much deep air spearfishing anymore but did tons of it in my younger years on the Gulf oil rigs. I know some of the younger divers who do it. If it is so dangerous how come we don't see an above average number of deaths here compared to other areas. The last one here was about a year ago and it wasn't depth related.

No clue but the number of "why am I bent" or "Am I bent" threads on spearboard seems disproportionally then other tech forums. If it is though it might not have anything to do with deep air but more the lack of training. So many guys talking about being self taught to dive deep it's scary.

 

[DCBC]

Helium only lowers the experienced narcosis, it doesn't eliminate it outright.

Clearly you have never used Heliox.

 

[PfcAJ]

I never said it was one of the leading causes.... Once again, stop trying to put words in my mouth.

And you JUST said that it is a factor... one that I can eliminate by not being a nickel rocket.

 

[Reg Braithwaite]

If you paid attention to the details, you would realize that the primary cause of death in diving fatalities has nothing to do with END.

Could a high END be a contributing factor on incidents where diver error is involved? For example, "insufficient air." Could any of those deaths have been prevented by a diver checking their SPGs more frequently and aborting their dive at an earlier point?

 

[PfcAJ]

99% of divers aren't using Heliox, so its not really applicable to this discussion. And oxygen puts rats to sleep at like 800ft or so, so its unquestionably narcotic to some degree.

 

[DCBC]

Could a high END be a contributing factor on incidents where diver error is involved? For example, "insufficient air." Could any of those deaths have been prevented by a diver checking their SPGs more frequently and aborting their dive at an earlier point?

Reg, I guess I've had enough of seeing long lists of deceased people posted on a public board to make someone's point (who has no idea of the real cause of death). I don't think that this is appropriate. Even more inappropriate is to suggest that the reason why they died had anything to do with the END.

 

[ucfdiver]

Yes, and Shek Exleys death was the result of deep air diving too... No wait - wasn't he on He?

You might want to at least try to read before calling me out...it CLEARLY says >100ft END. He tied himself to the line rather than ascending, I'm guessing he was at least a LITTLE impaired?

I think in a discussion like this we should indicate which are facts and which are not.

I indicated the facts when I stated END, you chose to either ignore or not read them.

Reg, I guess I've had enough of seeing long lists of deceased people posted on a public board again and again to make someone's point who has no idea of the real cause of death. I don't think that this is appropriate. Even more inappropriate is to suggest that the reason why they died had anything to do with the END.

You must not be too tired of seeing them, you're still promoting and talking down the danger of deep air. I don't know the exact cause of exley's death, but it's believed to be HPNS. However he wrapped himself around the guideline in an effort to (we THINK) make the recovery easier. This is perhaps the most experienced recreational (technical) diver of our lifetime, and they're finding caves in Tallahassee where he dropped a reel in the silt and didn't secure it or even lock the reel. Now, clearly he was diving before we had all the information in front of us, and it's understandable why he didn't use helium, but we can learn a lesson. Someone with the experience of well over a thousand deep air dives still made silly mistakes.

 

[Sloth]

According to the Undersea & Hyperbaric Medicine Journal, November/December 2008 issue, which examined 947 diving fatalities for the time period 1992 to 2003, the top three "triggers" causing death were: insufficient gas (41% of the total fatalities) and entrapment (20% of fatalities). The most common disabling agent was rapid, emergency ascent which occurred in 55% of the fatalities.

Isn't that sort of like saying that car crashes cause the most fatalities to drunk drivers and not alcohol?

Seriously though unless that study only included deep divers then I doubt the majority of fatalities even happened beyond a END of 100' which doesn't really help your argument. Do you have a title name or link to the report by any chance?

 

[DCBC]

99% of divers aren't using Heliox, so its not really applicable to this discussion. And oxygen puts rats to sleep at like 800ft or so, so its unquestionably narcotic to some degree.

You stated: "Helium only lowers the experienced narcosis, it doesn't eliminate it outright." You're incorrect; there is no known narcotic effect to Helium. It's all in the details...

 

[ucfdiver]

You stated: "Helium only lowers the experienced narcosis, it doesn't eliminate it outright." You're incorrect; there is no known narcotic effect to Helium. It's all in the details...

Are you breathing pure helium? No.

Oxygen is narcotic and is required to sustain life. There's simply no mix that's not narcotic and breathable.

Helium cannot eliminate 100% of narcosis. It's all in the details...