Deep Air - Here we go again....

[dumpsterDiver]

Why do what?

Why engage in any activity that has substantial risk? It only makes sense in that man has a thirst for adventure, exploration and testing himself. And that's man as a whole and man as individual.

Why do the best climbers insist on doing the 8,000m peeks without oxygen?
a) for purist/aesthetic reasons
b) to move lighter and quicker
c) because it sets them apart

Why would a diver dive deep on air? I'm sure I couldn't comment from any position of experience but I can certainly understand the appeal of the challenge.

And who wants sanitising of adventure anyway? I'm not suggesting it be proposed by agencies, but if this is what some people want to do, then why not? Especially when put up against essentials of the argument: My need for adventure the way I skin it is acceptable. Yours is not.

The 'it'll only close places down' argument doesn't really hold water. Plenty of CCR and cave divers NOT ON AIR have met their end engaging in 'their thing' - are they to be held in contempt too?

J

Seriously, I think some of you are looking at some of the deeper air dives with a warped perspective. I personally set a limit of around 200 ft. It ain't no 25,000 mountain!!!!, and it isn't exploration and it isn't macho. For me it is a weekend dive.

Freedivers ride sleds down to something like 600 feet now.

 

[Sloth]

Seriously, I think some of you are looking at some of the deeper air dives with a warped perspective. I personally set a limit of around 200 ft. It ain't no 25,000 mountain!!!!, and it isn't exploration and it isn't macho. For me it is a weekend dive.

Freedivers ride sleds down to something like 600 feet now.

It's like you said earlier. Everyone has their own perspective on what is reasonable and what isn't reasonable on deep air. For some 200ft is just another weekend of spearfishing but for me it's crazy.

I really just don't understand the drive for spearfishing in general and it seems like it's spearfishing that is driving a lot of the aggressive deep air dives in the gulf and east coast.

Reading the spearfishing board is kind of scary. The guys going out every weekend probably can't swing trimix every dive but man, at least get proper deep diving training to learn the risks and understand proper gas planning and deco.

Sorry to derail this thread but I really worry about the spearfishing guys (and gals).

 

[nadwidny]

Freedivers ride sleds down to something like 600 feet now.

And they die doing it. You may want to change your comparison.

 

[captain]

It's like you said earlier. Everyone has their own perspective on what is reasonable and what isn't reasonable on deep air. For some 200ft is just another weekend of spearfishing but for me it's crazy.

I really just don't understand the drive for spearfishing in general and it seems like it's spearfishing that is driving a lot of the aggressive deep air dives in the gulf and east coast.

Reading the spearfishing board is kind of scary. The guys going out every weekend probably can't swing trimix every dive but man, at least get proper deep diving training to learn the risks and understand proper gas planning and deco.

Sorry to derail this thread but I really worry about the spearfishing guys (and gals).

At age 65 I don't do much deep air spearfishing anymore but did tons of it in my younger years on the Gulf oil rigs. I know some of the younger divers who do it. If it is so dangerous how come we don't see an above average number of deaths here compared to other areas. The last one here was about a year ago and it wasn't depth related.

 

[ucfdiver]

The last one here was about a year ago and it wasn't depth related.

Of course not!

 

[DaleC]

Yes, and Shek Exleys death was the result of deep air diving too... No wait - wasn't he on He?

A few >100ft END diving deaths as of 1997

Quote:
Heywood Day, 140', 1962
Ron Hughes, 150', 1963
Paul Giancontere, 200', 1965
Brend Joost, 160', 1968
Stephen Alexander, 210', 1969
Pat McIntree, 150', 1969
Brett Naisbet, 150', 1969
Wayne Dillon, 210', 1969
Francis Wilson, 160', 1969
Paul Bartlett, 140', 1970
Robert Causey, 180', 1970
Bud Sims, 300', 1970
Fred Schmidt, 150', 1970
John Cruselle, 180', 1971
Frank Martz, 300', 1971
Robert Vaughn, 200', 1971
Doug Deurloo, 150', 1971
Ray Elman, 260', 1972
Alex Nesbitt, 200', 1972
Thomas Cranmer, 200', 1972
Paul Dietrich, 240', 1972
Dan Cole, 220', 1972
Rich Broman, 140', 1972
Stephen Millott, 250', 1973
Christine Millott, 250', 1973
John Bockerman, 250', 1973
Gordon Roberts, 250', 1973
William Smith, 200', 1973
Melvan Tillman, 150', 1973
James Waddington, 140', 1973
Robert Wyatt, 210', 1973
Deane Valentine, 190', 1973
George Van de Nord, 190', 1973
Paul Reinholm, 170', 1974
Unidentified, 200', 1974
Dana Turner, 290', 1974
Charles Barone, 180', 1975
Daniel Howard, 180', 1975
Steve Herman, 180', 1975
Mike Goddard, 170', 1976
Arthur Williamson, 140', 1976
Sven Sorenson, 140', 1976
William Wood, 180', 1978
Carl Miles, 180', 1978
Terry Collins, 260', 1981
James Bentz, 260', 1981
Bill McFadden, 200', 1988
William Cronin, 140', 1988
Kenny Potts, 200', 1990
Lloyd Morrison, 250', 1990
Billy Liiard, 180', 1991
Ormsby, John 230' 1985
Feldman, Steve 235' 1991
Soellner, Ed 145' 1992
Rouse, Jr, Chris 235' 1992
Rouse, Sr Chris 235' 1992
Santulli, Robert 220 1992
Sheck Exley 400 aed
Nick Commoglio 450
Rob Palmer ?
Rob Parker 250
Ed Suarez 280
Carl Sutton 280
Legare Hole 240
Andy Bader 220
Aron Arvidson 311*******correction
Dennis Sirvet 110 meters
DOUGLAS MISSAVAGE 191 ******correction

 

[PfcAJ]

Take note, the top of that list says deaths with an END greater than 100ft.

Attention to details...

 

[DaleC]

I saw that but wondered why it was introduced in a discussion regarding deep air. SE was on He. Captain stated the last Spearfishing incident wasn't related to DA and ucf said "of course not". Is that factual or just an inferance like the list above because the diver may have died while deep?

I think in a discussion like this we should indicate which are facts and which are not.

 

[PfcAJ]

Deep air in the context of this thread is really "unacceptable ENDs". Helium only lowers the experienced narcosis, it doesn't eliminate it outright. The nitrogen and oxygen in the breathing gas still causes narcosis. How the oxygen contributes to the narcosis is a matter of debate, but it does contribute (either by the inherent narcotic principal of o2 or by increasing co2 retention).

For instance, at 200ft, the Equivalent Narcotic Depth of 18% oxygen and 45% helium (18/45) is 95ft. So the diver is experiencing equivalent narcosis (mathematically) of diving to 95ft on air.



Sheck's END was over 400ft.

 

[DCBC]

Take note, the top of that list says deaths with an END greater than 100ft.

Attention to details...

If you paid attention to the details, you would realize that the primary cause of death in diving fatalities has nothing to do with END.

According to the Undersea & Hyperbaric Medicine Journal, November/December 2008 issue, which examined 947 diving fatalities for the time period 1992 to 2003, the top three "triggers" causing death were: insufficient gas (41% of the total fatalities) and entrapment (20% of fatalities). The most common disabling agent was rapid, emergency ascent which occurred in 55% of the fatalities.

In the almost 1000 deaths over 9 years, END wasn't even listed as a minor factor let alone a major one!

Yes, nitrogen narcosis can be a problem, but don't make it into the Boogy Man that's the leading cause of death for divers. IT'S NOT. Yes it's a factor, but get real.