Deep 6 regulator and TDI

[Lorenzoid]

. . . But OTOH a student starting intro to tech doesn't know what works for them or doesn't. Like right now as a prospective student for intro to tech I don't know if I want to go back mounted doubles, side mount, or a mixture of both depending on the situation. How do I know that unless I try both? And I personally can't afford to buy both setups in the short term, but an instructor that is able to provide some standard equipment like spare wings, regs, and tanks can allow a student to try both with minimal investment which is a value added to students.

I am not convinced that a prospective student who has no idea what kind of configuration appeals to him is going to have an epiphany and know what's right for him after a few test dives with different configurations. My thinking is to choose an instructor who does a lot of diving of the type you would like to do, and whom you think you would like to model your diving after. The instructor is likely going to have a configuration preference--maybe he's a sidemount guy, maybe he's a backmount guy. If he dives a lot, he's likely to have some gear of that type to offer you to use for the course, or at least know of a source from which to get it for you to use. Assuming the course goes well, dive and dive the way your instructor taught you, until you get good with that gear. Then, if and when you find yourself attracted to some other configuration, you'll know you're ready to try it.

This is an admittedly goofy analogy, but it's something I have had in my head for some time. Few kids said, "mom, I really want to learn to play the piano." No, we (at least back in my day) wanted to learn electric guitar. But your mom knew that if you learned to play some basic instrument, you could switch to something else later, once you really had a grasp of music. The most basic basics of technical diving, like precision buoyancy, trim, propulsion, and control, are actually quite similar across the configurations. Maybe like the ability to read music?

 

[Lorenzoid]

. . .
But then again as a disabled diver, my concerns are a bit different from your average bear's.

Oh. Then take my comment above for what it's worth. Also, it wasn't aimed specifically at you, of course--just a general comment about gear configurations for aspiring tech divers.

 

[stuartv]

I understand where stuartv comes from, as owning and servicing a ton of equipment to provide for rental is a huge burden on independent instructors. But OTOH a student starting intro to tech doesn't know what works for them or doesn't. Like right now as a prospective student for intro to tech I don't know if I want to go back mounted doubles, side mount, or a mixture of both depending on the situation. How do I know that unless I try both? And I personally can't afford to buy both setups in the short term, but an instructor that is able to provide some standard equipment like spare wings, regs, and tanks can allow a student to try both with minimal investment which is a value added to students.

Every student or prospect I have talked to (not that that is a very big number) has wanted to try backmount doubles AND sidemount before deciding on going further down one path or the other. I would recommend to anyone, student or prospect or not, gear to try, places where they might rent it from, etc..

TDI Intro to Tech can be done in back mount or side mount (though I wouldn't teach it in sidemount myself because, while I have done sidemounting and have the TDI Sidemount card, I don't feel like I have adequate experience in sidemount to be teaching it). What seems to be common is to do ItT in back mount and then do TDI Sidemount for the sidemount experience. It has been said to me that TDI Sidemount is pretty much the sidemount equivalent of Intro to Tech.

Anyway, it's like I said before, even if I owned enough gear to rent or loan, that would still not give any student a broad experience of different wings, etc.. It seems like even shops that rent tech gear (a la the one I was working for) are the same way. The shop I was with had one ScubaPro BP/W rig that they rented. And one set of double 100s. Plus, it would cost me more for insurance if I was also covering myself for providing gear to students. All in all, I can't see it being worth it.

Back mount is kind of easy. For most people, a BP is a BP is a BP. It wouldn't take much consultation with an instructor for a student select and buy (or rent) a BP and a harness that would work fine for them. Wings are a little harder, but just about any decent wing can be made to work okay. So, a student CAN buy that stuff (if they aren't able to rent or borrow) without TOO much concern of feeling like they bought the wrong thing later. Like I said, that is presuming just a bit of pre-purchase consultation with the instructor. Not to mention that a BP and Hogarthian harness can be had for pretty darn little investment. A wing is a bit more substantial, but still not like buying a reg set or tech-worthy computer.

A student driving a long way for a class could have some pre-class consultation over the phone or by email and rent appropriate gear to bring to class. Or the instructor could arrange a rental local to the instructor.

There are MANY options that do not require "a good instructor" to have the gear that the student needs for the instructor to rent or loan.

 

[Marie13]

It's not rocket science (talk with instructor) and it doesn't have to cost the earth. Just an example, here's what I did. Its a mix of old, new, free, and not so expensive (with a few expensive bits). I'd already have the Perdix and the drysuit even if I wasn't going to tech dive.

Regs: Apeks XTX50. 1 set was bought new in box here on SB for $425 in 2017 and it became my pony reg. Other set was won at an event. Added hoses and SPG for SM. When I chose to do a twinset, it was easy enough to reconfigure regs, with the addition of a couple of hoses. .

BP/W: already had one, but then I discovered the Halcyon short plate. $225 (worth every penny), but I sold off SM BC and standard sized plate, which more than covered cost of short plate. A lovely SB'er, who shall remain nameless, gave me a 10-12 year old Dive Rite Rec model wing, 45lb lift. It had been used with HP100 doubles, so well able to cope with my HP80 doubles. It needed $50 in parts and it's back diving. The current model of this wing runs $330 new.

Tanks: I already had 3 pairs of HP80s, all fitted out with left/right valves for SM. Just had to add a manifold to one set. The SB'er who gave me the wing also included a manifold, but the threading didn't fit my XS Scuba valves. New manifold was $80. Cost $25 for my LDS to assemble doubles. 1980s-1990s vintage bands cost $30 from someone I know. Needed old bands because they're skinnier than currently available 2.5" width bands, which allows 11'' bolt spacing to be maintained (HP80s are short).

Fins: already had Deep6 fins, but they're too light for a twinset. Snagged a pair of Hog Tech 2 fins on a FB sell group for $50. The sticky point here is I have small feet (XS or 6 in wetsuit booties, size 7 women's shoe, Fusion soft boots are a 7). Many tech fins with a "standard" as their smallest size are too big. The Hog fins are even shorter than my Deep 6 fins, but they actually came in my size. I'll try them out in the pool next month and go from there.

Computer: 1 year old Perdix AI. I expect to eventually get a second.

Exposure protection: bought a new Fusion Fit (skin tailored for women) drysuit in August. So all set there, also have dry gloves. Both necessary for Great Lakes diving.

So you don't necessarily have to start from scratch when you're getting into tech diving. Maybe you just need to do some tweaking.

 

[KenGordon]

There are MANY options that do not require "a good instructor" to have the gear that the student needs for the instructor to rent or loan.

An example.

If I were to want to do a sidemount course what should I do? Find an instructor who can provide me with the kit or rent/buy kit based on what a bunch of people on the internet tell me?

I am not going to dive sidemount locally, I’d only do it for a laugh and to see whether I might learn something useful for bailout cylinders.

It seems to me that an instructor who cannot help me with the kit, without me buying it, is not good at all, they are either very expensive or completely useless.

I understand that kit logistics are a pain, I have to deal with new divers and recently did a whole day with one using my mask while I discovered my backup doesn’t like stubble, however it is part of enabling people to learn. It is especially part of a course that is supposed to help people understand what they need wrt kit.

 

[stuartv]

An example.

If I were to want to do a sidemount course what should I do? Find an instructor who can provide me with the kit or rent/buy kit based on what a bunch of people on the internet tell me?

What about rent/buy based on what the instructor tells you (in a pre-class consultation)? Presuming the instructor doesn't have kit to rent/loan you, of course.

 

[Marie13]

Another vote for having your own gear -

The other gal in my SM class last summer had a rented rig. It didn’t fit - too big - but I don’t believe there were other options.

Maybe this isn’t so much an issue for guys. But anyway, if you’re not a regular size - too small or too large - you’re probably better off with your own kit.

 

[KenGordon]

What about rent/buy based on what the instructor tells you (in a pre-class consultation)? Presuming the instructor doesn't have kit to rent/loan you, of course.

I am certainly not buying it, I am happy to rent but I suspect the chances of renting it at all are poor and renting the right thing (given sidemount seems to be split about some stuff) is lower. So my expectation is that I have to rent or be loaned the kit by the person I am doing the course with.

Diving instructors are pretty much like builders (contractors?). Rather than asking “who did it like that?” they ask “who taught you to do that? What a cowboy!” (Cowboy is a term of derision here, replace as necessary). Imagine turning up at shop X for an open water course with kit from shop Y...

I can do a whole CCR course without buying anything other than materials, surely Intro to Tech is easier than that?

 

[KenGordon]

Another vote for having your own gear -

The other gal in my SM class last summer had a rented rig. It didn’t fit - too big - but I don’t believe there were other options.

Maybe this isn’t so much an issue for guys. But anyway, if you’re not a regular size - too small or too large - you’re probably better off with your own kit.

How could she tell whether it fitted or not?

 

[abnfrog]

as matter of fact we do rent rebreathers also ,