My alt air is on my inflator hose. My primary second is not extra long. My diving is open ocean up to 60 foot drift dives no mandatory deco. I also carry a 6cft pony. I want to CESA with something to breath. I could hand off the pony if needed but at 60 foot no deco you are 60 seconds to 120 seconds to the surface.
Death at Blue Springs State Park, Florida
- Thread starter Jon_R
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My alt air is on my inflator hose. My primary second is not extra long. My diving is open ocean up to 60 foot drift dives no mandatory deco. I also carry a 6cft pony. I want to CESA with something to breath. I could hand off the pony if needed but at 60 foot no deco you are 60 seconds to 120 seconds to the surface.
We haven't had a really good "buddy breathing should still be taught!" thread in quite some time. Back when we used to have them regularly, I would see that a lot of the people posting held the following two beliefs concurrently:
1. If the OOA diver approaches you when you have an alternate air source, the OOA diver will be in an uncontrollable panic and all sorts of mayhem will ensue.
2. If the OOA diver approaches you and sees that you do not have an alternate air source and you will have to buddy breathe, they immediately become totally calm and relaxed. All their training skills come back to them instantly, and the two of you will have a safe and orderly ascent.
Haha. My default is a ooa diver will be coming with plans to rip the 2nd out of my mouth anything less than that will be a surprise. I plan to defend myself and render aid in that order. I plan to donate my primary second so the fact that they will likely be their focus might help.
Once we all have air, hope are calm I will factor in the poney and go from there. Of course it is all a plan and that only survives until first contact....
The divers usually closest to me are my kids and girlfriend so might cloud the judgement/logic some.... The bigger issue is if I see a panicked diver looking like they are drowning my kid.... I will do anything to stop that...
Skittl1321
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When we bought our original gear, my husband and I got talked into Air2s, because it seemed like a good idea. No one said a single word to us about putting a longer hose on our primary regulator. In fact, we did several attempted air-shares on the gear we had, and found it extremely uncomfortable and difficult to do a good ascent when quite literally nose-to-nose. This is why I participate in the Air2 threads here, almost always just to say that, if someone makes the decision to use one, they should be aware that they need at least an octo-length primary hose, because that's their sharing reg.
I am one of those who practices donating the primary on a long hose while breathing from an alternate hanging from my neck. It works really, really well. I learned that when I took up technical diving, but for a while I did not change the setup I was using for my recreational diving from its traditional form. Then I heard about someone drowning because she went OOA, went to her buddy, and found that the alternate had come loose from its keeper and gotten stuck somewhere out of her sight. The traditional alternate is designed to come off easily, and it often does when not intended. The alternate around the neck is designed to stay put, and it does.
When I teach OW students in traditional gear, I tell them that it does not matter what you have learned and practiced, what actually happens in an OOA situation depends upon the actions of the OOA diver. If you see that diver reaching for your primary, open your mouth so you don't lose your teeth, and then go for your octo. I was shocked to learn that there are instructors who actually teach students to try to stop the OOA diver from taking their primary by covering it up, on the assumption that the panicked diver will think, "Oh my! He is covering up the regulator I was trying to take in my panic to remind me that I should no be doing that. Let's see--what was it I was supposed to do? Oh, yes! I had better reach for his alternate instead." IMO, the OOA diver will instead keep gong for that regulator and you will soon be in a hand fight with a panicked diver. That would not be my preference.
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I have considered removing my alternate second stage from my main reg since I almost always dive with my pony, but I've kept it. I try to tell others to grab either of the alternates as my pony is on, but trying to get my Manta mouthpiece out of my mouth won't work. And if someone pull a denture out of my mouth in the ocean, they'll have to go look elsewhere for air. 
Panicked? Ok, I'll help, but you are responsible for your equipment and training, so try to avoid killing us both.
Panicked? Ok, I'll help, but you are responsible for your equipment and training, so try to avoid killing us both.
grey2112
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I have considered removing my alternate second stage from my main reg since I almost always dive with my pony, but I've kept it. I try to tell others to grab either of the alternates as my pony is on, but trying to get my Manta mouthpiece out of my mouth won't work. And if someone pull a denture out of my mouth in the ocean, they'll have to go look elsewhere for air.
Panicked? Ok, I'll help, but you are responsible for your equipment and training, so try to avoid killing us both.
I am discovering more and more after reading many of these accounts that the VAST majority of people in an OOA situation will never act rationally or remember their training - they are in full panic mode, that monkey brain screeching at them - after reading these accounts I am going to make sure to double check all my gear every time, rig my octo properly near my neck, and more than like rig up my pony and take it with me on every dive as a matter of course, even in 20 feet of water.
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Are there divers who can't do a CESA from 20 ft? Still, your plan is a good one. Yeah, all that needs to be checked, every dive.
I suppose some fool could bypass my yellow alternate on my right side and my pony on my left side, both better choices than the one I am sucking on, and try to get my Manta out of my mouth. I use fresh denture glue every morning of a dive trip so I don't think they'll knock those loose, but if I relax - I can spit the Manta out, but he won't like it. Good to allow for all possibilities tho.
grey2112
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I guess I'm thinking about those situations where your monkey brain takes over - you are in an ALIEN environment, surrounded by water which you cannot breathe. The mind cannot act rationally in a panic situation unless you are a well-trained and rational individual. I have a lot of dive buddies who I believe will act rationally. But you never know until it happens. Sometimes I am appalled at how few people do buddy checks, gear checks, etc. I spear fish, and in that community there sometimes is a macho, first-in-the-water wins mentality. I have had to really train myself to slow down, take my time before getting in, and realize that most of the time I'm going to be on my own as most spearfishermen turn into solo divers once in the water.
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