Death at Blue Springs State Park, Florida

[DandyDon]

I guess I'm thinking about those situations where your monkey brain takes over - you are in an ALIEN environment, surrounded by water which you cannot breathe. The mind cannot act rationally in a panic situation unless you are a well-trained and rational individual. I have a lot of dive buddies who I believe will act rationally. But you never know until it happens. Sometimes I am appalled at how few people do buddy checks, gear checks, etc. I spear fish, and in that community there sometimes is a macho, first-in-the-water wins mentality. I have had to really train myself to slow down, take my time before getting in, and realize that most of the time I'm going to be on my own as most spearfishermen turn into solo divers once in the water.

Yeah, you're right. I gave up on buddies and got my pony over a decade ago, and now carrying a camera - I've been a solo diver in the group, much like any other hunter. I try to make sure I can save myself, and have when I have screwed up badly the morning after getting in too late for have my pony filled, and I try to watch for others in the groups and be ready to help - but you just never know what's next. I keep thinking I have screwed up enough and learned from those, but we never know what's next. We've got to keep learning and surviving the surprises.

 

[boulderjohn]

but trying to get my Manta mouthpiece out of my mouth won't work. And if someone pull a denture out of my mouth in the ocean, they'll have to go look elsewhere for air.

I am sure any OOA diver will understand that when you explain it to them. They will probably shrug politely, ask your forgiveness, and go out in search of another source of air.

 

[DandyDon]

I am sure any OOA diver will understand that when you explain it to them. They will probably shrug politely, ask your forgiveness, and go out in search of another source of air.

Yeah, yeah - someone knocks a denture out of my mouth and my instinct may well be to chase it down.

 

[bada3003]

Kudos for doing so. All too often I see dads with their kids sporting latest gadgets but lacking basic buoyancy control (one can extrapolate what would happen under buddy breathing, free flow, or other unexpected conditions). I'm tempted to say something to those dads but then again it's a sensitive subject matter.

I do the same as Doubler with my 2 boys. We are only about 20ft down but I shut of one of the tanks and then monitor them. After that is done they do the same to me. We also practice lost mask drills, towing, and all the other basic skills every diver should know and practice. Does it take time out of the fun dive, Yes. But I would rather spend 30-45 mins one one dive to practice and feel confident in having to use those skills if the need arises than to not do them or not do them enough and have an accident like this.

Here recently we have been able to practice the jellyfish stinging swarm skill

 

[oncor23]

I turn my air on. I turn it all the way on, then back if off 1/8th turn. Then I don't allow anyone to mess with it. Of course, I'm generally not on a cattle boat with lots of other divers and crew that might feel the need to "help" me with my air. Which brings me to the situation here: the tank full of air with the valve only on by 1/4 turn. Why? Where the 2 divers talking and joking with each other while gearing up and not really paying attention? When I turn my air on...it goes on all the way...I don't stop. That brings us to a tricky situation. Why have your dive partner check to see if your air is on when you supposedly set it up and turned it on before you got into your rig? Why can't you check to see if your air is on? That would avoid the problem of someone, even your dive partner, turning your air off when, in fact, it was on.

I've been in the water when one of our group discovered his air wasn't fully on. He was maybe 30-40 ft down when he noticed his reg was breathing hard. Then he looked at his gage and saw the needle hopping with every breath. He motioned for his partner to check his air and that solved the problem right there. The takeaway: if breathing off your reg is getting hard early in the dive, it won't improve as you go deeper. Stop and figure out what's wrong and correct it, or abort the dive.

Afterwards, as an experiment, I tried breathing my reg with the tank valve barely on (at about 5 ft of depth). After a breath or two, I noticed the needle on the gage doing a small dance and my air integrated computer locked up and would not give me a pressure reading....even after turning the air fully on.

If either of these divers understood their equipment a little better, well...you know.

 

[TomZ]

I turn on my air valve 100%, to where it just gets tight, then back it off, just enough to release tension. I was taught that way back in the 70's. I'm now re-evaluating that practice.

The last thing I do before entering the water, is take a couple of hard hits off my reg while observing the pressure gauge. I can't understand why this is not a standard practice.

I realize Vindicator valves are widely considered an equipment solution, however they do serve as a visual to your buddy, or "helpful" DM.

 

[boulderjohn]

The last thing I do before entering the water, is take a couple of hard hits off my reg while observing the pressure gauge. I can't understand why this is not a standard practice.
.

Every instructor I know teaches it in OW classes.

In doing so myself, I have caught myself with the valve only cracked a couple of times. I have also had the argon bottle for my dry suit inflation stop working for that reason while I was descending rapidly at the beginning of a dive. (I got it open quickly, but I still had wrinkle-shaped bruises from the suit squeeze.)

What happened in each case for me was that I cracked the valve just to see what the pressure was, intending to shut it off and then turn it back on later. I then somehow got distracted or something and stopped at that point. It may be why I am the poster child for adult ADD. I think that sort of thing can happen a lot, and that is why a good predive check--including looking at your gauge while you creathe--is important.

 

[Jack Hammer]

Checking your valves at the start of a dive and breathing off the regs does not prevent a roll off from occurring during the dive itself... Just a thought

 

[TomZ]

Every instructor I know teaches it in OW classes.

John, is it part of PADI standards? I've seen it taught, and not taught. I know I've seen many, many divers not do it on various Caribbean boat dives.

 

[boulderjohn]

John, is it part of PADI standards? I've seen it taught, and not taught. I know I've seen many, many divers not do it on various Caribbean boat dives.

It isn't in the standards, but everyone I assisted when I was a DM and an AI made that part of the instruction. There are many things that are in the instruction manual for the class that aren't on the knowledge reviews or exams. I don't have a manual with me, so I can't check to see what it says there.

A lot of people teach instead that during the pre-dive check, you and your buddy should turn each other's valves to make sure they are fully on. In theory that will accomplish the same thing. I don't like that because I think there is a good chance the buddy will turn it off instead.

I was once doing a scuba refresher class for couple, fairly experienced divers, and when we were gearing up to get into the pool, I went over that. I told them that if the needle dropped while they were inhaling and didn't come back, the valve had been turned off, and if it dropped and then jumped back, it was only slightly open. The wife said, "So if the needle holds still, it's OK?" I assured her it was. We went into the pool and started reviewing skills. After a few minutes she suddenly seemed panicked. When I got to her to see what was up, I saw that she was out of air. I asked her how much gas she had when she did her predive check, and she said, "It was down in the red area, but the needle wasn't moving."

I have since amended my instruction.