Current SCUBA Instruction Techniques

[Paladin]

Miketsp,
You have pointed out at least two very important reasons why my method can be safer in certain situations.

1. The girl was over weighted. Diving without a BC requires careful selection of weight for any given dive. Diving the old way, she would not have been over weighted in the first place. This just reinforces what I have been saying. The girl was diving overweight and depending on her BC to compensate. When she got into trouble, she panicked simply because she had not been given enough training and did not have the confidence needed to respond properly.

2. The use of a separate weight belt with a quick-release buckle. In the situation you described, had she been wearing an "old-fashioned" weight belt, the DM could have easily removed her weights and stopped the descent pronto.

'Nuff said.

 

[AggieDad]

Paladin954
Interesting post and I agree with some of your thoughts. I only started diving five years ago and was somewhat surprised at some of the things that I grew up watching on TV was not included...i.e. diving down to the bottom and retrieving all my equipment etc. After continuing education I learned most of those things. Now as an instructor I sometimes am uncomfortable with the "quickness" of what we are teaching but then as I watch a student progress from their first open water dives to their final certification dive, I am encouraged...HOWEVER I really stress that they have a learners permit and to not stop where they are to increase their world of enjoyment and safety.
As a fellow pilot, I agree somewhat about the Luscombe analogy. My first instructor taught me how to use a chart, my eyes, a compass and a clock but did not stress VOR navigation. When I went for my private pilot checkride, the examiner just laughed and said "Sandy's students may not be the best at VOR work but they can always find a way home". He then proceeded to polish me a little on what I needed. I now fly one of the world's most complicated and electrical airplanes all over the world, in all types of weather etc. For the mission, the Luscombe is perfect but the limitations imposed by it's lack of radios, electrical system etc. require it to stay within those limits or disaster can strike. My airplane is equipped for and routinely does CAT 3B approaches with autoland (zero ceiling and 300 foot visisblity). Other than thunderstorms we are not limited that much. Each has its own niche to fill. Modern dive equipment (in some cases but not all) make it safer and more convenient for the diver to enjoy the sport. I don't espouse one way over another but I enjoy the ability to trust (to a point) my computer but I am always backing it up with tables. In flying with all the computers on my airplane (over 140 different computers) sometimes things get very confused and we always just say "Turn off everything and fly it like an airplane" (This option is not available with some manufacturers - Airbus)
Like the old adage in diving - STOP, THINK, ACT
in flying it is always Fly the airplane - AVIATE, NAVIGATE and then COMMUNICATE
When my son learned to fly and passed his checkride, I said "Congratulations...NOW! Let's go pass the Dad checkride".
Good for you on wanting a strong basic diving knowledge for your son...he will learn of the equipment and be asking for all of it soon enough.

 

[Nemrod]

Swam probably close to half a mile from shore and was in the water swimming continuously for over three hours, Pompano Drop Off was the site. My gear being set up, Voit 50 Fathom, pumped LP72, Voit Snug Pack, BFK, Jet Fins, Atomic mask, Scuba Pro Shotgun snorkel:

What I saw, I take only pictures and memories, leave only bubbles, I never touch or harass or step on anything:

The swim was done with absolutely no BC and I never stepped on anything, ever:

Arrgh, a little current, go Jets go!:

Kinda lonely out there, this was a solo dive BTW:

Absolute control is the goal, perfect balance and 3 dimensional maneuverability are the benefits of learning to do without the crutches. I don't need a BC. YRMV.

N

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Having just read the long thread about the female diver death in the Bahamas
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/accidents-incidents/287884-bahamas-missing-female-diver.html
where the DM was not able to bring up a resisting diver when they were both going down fast at 140', even with a BC, makes me wonder if all this talk about minimalist diving & neutral buoyancy without a BC isn't just a little bit macho style.
What do you do if you're trying to haul up an overweighted victim that insists on emptying their own BC if you haven't got any reserve buoyancy of your own?

Well, the first thing is if you're diving absolute minimalist with no BC you're probably not making any plans on diving to 140 feet. The second thing is most or all minimalists probably wouldn't dive with an overweighted victim. I say that because most divers trained these days are overweighted victims, they just don't know it yet.

 

[gcbryan]

I think vintage diving is interesting but not having a wing on my BP really doesn't make my boat float to the same extent that it seems to for you. I use it very little during a dive but with heavy undegarments, larger tanks, etc. it's needed. I'm not interested in diving wet or in rubber suits just to avoid a wing.

I feel pretty unencumbered in a BP/W. You guy's do seem to underestimate the buoyancy control of everyone not in vintage gear. It's not much of a comparison if the standard is newly trained occasional warm water divers.

Again, I do find it interesting, the pictures are interesting, and I'm sure it's enjoyable for you. There are people who enjoy reenacting the Civil War over and over as well. Vintage diving doesn't seem to be quite as popular in the PNW as in some other locations however although I'm sure there are some here as well.

 

[Paladin]

AggieDad,
I started flying when I was 16. My cousin was taking flying lessons and got me interested in it. I never went beyond Private Pilot, Single Engine Land because my flying is purely for pleasure and the type of flying I like is of the puddle jumping variety. The biggest plane I have flown was a C-182. I like flying a Luscombe, C-140, C-170 or Super Cub into little out of the way places for fishing, hunting or just a quiet picnic away from it all. Heck, with my old Luscombe, I didn't even need an airport. Any field big enough would do. If I hadn't found it necessary to sell it, I was considering getting some Edos for it to expand my options. But things don't always go the way one wishes.

Oops. Sorry for getting off topic.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Relating to the "Minimalists and cold water" question.

I dive in water that ranges from 42 degrees to 53 degrees. This year it may reach into the mid 50's because of a forecasted El Nino event.

Anyway, People wonder how we do dives with no BC with thick wetsuits, easy, we order custom wetsuits that are made out of much denser material that the off the rack, run of the mill spongy suits. Therefore they do not compress nearly as bad as soft suits and buoyancy swing is minimized. Minimalists also know that they need to weight themselves properly, and the rule of thumb is to weight yourself so that at the end of the dive you can hold a stop at 15 feet with an almost empty tank. This rule actually should apply to whatever gear you are using. The only exceptions are if you are doing a dive very shallow for whatever reason and will never reach 15 feet. I have done some photography dives where I never get deeper than 5 to 8 feet (intertidal life) and then I add some weight to keep me where I need to be.
I also have a very thick Rubatex G-231 suit that is 1/2" thick with 3/8" on the arms. This is a commercial urchin diver suit that I got more for historical reasons; it was the very last of that material available so I ordered one. It is tough to dive BC-less in this suit but I have managed. This suit was designed for urchin diving, and with that you're using a hookah line so there is not the factor of a tank emptying out and you getting lighter. With hookah you stay constant, but you still get heavy on the deeper dives. That's why urchin divers use the line to pull themselves back up to the boat. Urchin diving is another world though so it's probably best to keep it out of this discussion. I'm not an urchin diver BTW, but I do have a suit for the job if I ever decide to get into it. ;-)

But I can say that when I plan to do deeper dives with either of my suits, especially the thick one, I will put a wing on to compensate for the crush on the deep stuff. Especially if I gather any game like scallops, then I definitly need a little ballast.

The whole advantage of BC-less diving is the incredible streamlining and speed that can be achieved using this method. It is not for deeper dives. It is generally used, at least in California, for lobster hunting (spiny's are really fast!), Halibut hunting, other spear fishing, or where ever speed and agility are needed. Many don't hunt at all, they just like the freedom and the joy that is opened up when one learns to dive without a BC, very similar to the freedoms experienced while freediving, except with the added benefit of being able to breath underwater.

However, minimalism is not for everybody. Those that tend to like to trudge along and like the feeling of excessive gear all around them and the sense of security it gives them probably would gain anything by getting into minimalism and probably wouldn't or can't understand or get the concept. I'm OK with that, I'm not here to convert anybody, I just know it is a path that I have chosen to follow. The ultimate simplicity and the distillation of the absolute essence of diving is our ultimate goal. It's an obsession, a quest, a hobby, whatever you want to call it, it's fun!

Many scoff and call us careless, daredevils, cowboys, etc, but the truth is most of the attackers attack out of ignorance and out of their own insecurities, I believe. Otherwise, it would seem to me that they shouldn't be bothered. Unless of course they are suffering from scubacop or divecontrolfreak syndrome, then I'm afraid they have issues beyond the scope of this thread.

But to get to the original OP's question about current training: No, there isn't reall anything like what they used to have. The only thing you can do is send him through the open water class then mentor him as soon as he is out. I have done this with a friend and it is coming along beautifully. I think the skin diving you are doing with your pupil is one of the best things for skill and comfort. It's a perfect lead-in for minimalism. After all, minimalism all started out of skin diving.

With the vintage aspect, I don't do any real vintage diving. I have a double hose reg that a dear friend gave me, but I have not tried it yet. All of my minimalist experiences have been with modern gear, and a modern mindset. I feel it's a new breakthrough, even though an old concept.

What's old is new, or, maybe the original idea wasn't broken so why did they try to fix it???

 

[I Dive]

Imagine my surprise though, when we paid a visit to a local dive shop, to find out that the old skills aren't even being taught anymore! No emergency ascents, no buddy breathing, no dive tables, nothing!

I don't have time to read through all the posts. All I am going to say is that, if the shop you talked to is not teaching CESA's, buddy breathing, or tables as you indicate above, you need to find a new shop. Do not pay them anything, I don't know what they are teaching but it is not a SCUBA class...

 

[Diver0001]

I teach buddy breathing because I think it is a useful skill to build teamwork, but is buddy breathing less prone to something going wrong? Of course not. In fact, the premise is illogical. Having octos on gear is far safer, even though octos are more technologically advanced.

This is a bit of a side step after the rescue we made last November I started to rethink the whole issue of teaching air sharing in OW. Most of my colleagues don't teach buddy breathing until Rescue (because it's logical) or DM (because it's required). I've had a chance to talk in a lot of detail to the guy we rescued and his buddy and partially as a result of what they said I've started to expose my students to every variant of air sharing they'll likely ever see. BB, octo, donate-primary, primary-taken, the passive OOA buddy and the long-hose config. I "drill" them on using the octopus so if they're most likely to do what the majority of divers are taught but I expose them to every other variant (this can easily be integrated into mod-2/3) so they don't freeze up and fail to act adequately in the case that someone confronts them with an air-sharing variant they haven't seen before.

This isn't meant as a slight to the original poster, but I really think new divers should realize that diving today is far safer because of technological advancements, not in spite of them.

Jeff

I think the op makes a good point about weighting. The BCD does allow one to cut corners and diver significantly over weighted without realizing it.

I, however, see this as a skills issue not as an issue of gear choices. At best, a configuration without a BCD will force the diver to see and/or deal with it but the issue is still fundamentally a skills issue.

R..

 

[Diver0001]

I think there is a bell curve with respect to technology and making things better.

Actually I would think it's an S curve like the one here:

At first, the technology is developed (like the advent of the octopus and/or the development of the CCR) but because people aren't familiar with the technology and/or use it incorrectly (like not attaching your octopus and letting it float around) then there is either no significant improvement in real terms and/or in some case it can actually be a step back. (ie an octopus is no help at all if it's floating behind your back all the time).

Once people start to get a grip on how to use the technology (octopus attached in the triangle, CCR's properly maintained and redundancy built in) the performance improvements become evident and the curve swings up.

Further refinements are made, training starts to standardize and adoption/acceptance of using the technology becomes more wide spread and the curve reaches the top of the middle part.

At that point, the engineers start to run out of ideas of how to functionally improve it and the engineering effort starts to focus on the lower priority items (like how it looks, reducing manufacturing costs etc) and the curve from the user's perspective flattens out (law of diminishing returns).

On a related note, I think the OP may, in fact, have a point (if I read hm correctly) that some of the "advancements" are more driven by the need of manufacturers to introduce new things than they are by the need of divers for whatever they manufacturers are pushing this year. Good examples of this are the HUB, FFM like the neptune, bright weights and certain BCD designs that look like something out of an "Aliens" movie with back and jacket inflate, pockets for everything all over the place and D rings in places you probably can't even reach..... Lots of gear has a big bling-bling factor but doesn't help us in any way whatsoever to dive any better.

That said, there really are two kinds of minimalists. The modern ones (who adopt the technological improvements) and the vintage minimalists who are happy to dive with older but perfectly adequate gear. In fact, it was paladin who triggered this thought in me when he said he uses an USD Aquarius. I still have one of these kicking around but I stopped using it some years ago because it didn't have a DIN connection and I was busy modernizing my gear and wanted to go all DIN.

R..