Crash dive?

[rjack321]

Like you colleague, you seem to have waken up with the intent to bash a particular company, specifically because they offer a way to dive to 200 m. What is wrong with that? That people get hurt (one of the member here, who has written about his accident, may want to chip in)? Well, I guess that the word will get out and people will think twice before signing up for deep dives on GF90/90 and AL40 bailout cylinders.

I'm glad they posted that CF and others I have seen (but seem to have been deleted or I'm not using the right search terms). Makes it far easier for the innocent to vet them.

 

[tbone1004]

You KNOW Peter was paid as a safety diver? I've read every court motion. He was never designated as a safety diver, he was designated (by the charterer) as an instructor.

The designated safety diver was not on the vessel that day.

I have that evidence if you want it by PM or email, but it's posted in the thread.

I thought it was in the initial lawsuit that he was hired as a safety diver for that trip. So much got blurred with misinformation everywhere that I may have early stuff and forgotten more recent.
Either way though, it doesn't matter. Whether instructor or safety diver, you are first in, last out, and responsible for the person you are supervising.

 

[Bubblesong]

The thread was started as a comment on the video How to Dive to 200 Video by the Add Helium Dive team.

I agree with the observation that it is painful to lose someone in a dive accident, and Scott, you are expressing your concern that AddHelium is still in peppy sales mode, not showing any mourning for the accident on their website.
From everything I have seen in the dive world, public mourning by dive organizations is not the norm, especially a year and a half later. These guys are ALL just living their passion and they are as passionate about Rebreathers as Rob Stewart was about Sharks.
So here is another way to look at this:
If Peter Sotis had died, and Rob Stewart had lived, should Rob Stewart never make another enthusiastic Shark Show? Not even 18 months later is Rob allowed to return to his passion and try to bring in new people to his interest?
Our dive club just lost a member to dive accident last weekend, not with the group. Our club put out the email to join the group dive this weekend. Are we being insensitive for continuing our hobby, should we skip a week? We could, we are not a business that needs to pay the rent, employees, Insurance etc, like AddHelium does.
Maybe the message that AddHelium is giving is Life has to go on, just learn as best we can?

 

[rjack321]

I thought it was in the initial lawsuit that he was hired as a safety diver for that trip. So much got blurred with misinformation everywhere that I may have early stuff and forgotten more recent.
Either way though, it doesn't matter. Whether instructor or safety diver, you are first in, last out, and responsible for the person you are supervising.

Rob was no longer a student and Sortis was not a "for hire" safety diver - he may have been expected to act like one give his pas

I agree with the observation that it is painful to lose someone in a dive accident, and Scott, you are expressing your concern that AddHelium is still in peppy sales mode, not showing any mourning for the accident on their website.
From everything I have seen in the dive world, public mourning by dive organizations is not the norm, especially a year and a half later. These guys are ALL just living their passion and they are as passionate about Rebreathers as Rob Stewart was about Sharks.
So here is another way to look at this:
If Peter Sotis had died, and Rob Stewart had lived, should Rob Stewart never make another enthusiastic Shark Show? Not even 18 months later is Rob allowed to return to his passion and try to bring in new people to his interest?
Our dive club just lost a member to dive accident last weekend, not with the group. Our club put out the email to join the group dive this weekend. Are we being insensitive for continuing our hobby, should we skip a week? We could, we are not a business that needs to pay the rent, employees, Insurance etc, like AddHelium does.
Maybe the message that AddHelium is giving is Life has to go on, just learn as best we can?

Except after Rob's death Sortis was off to teach and dive the next weekend. And Rob was recovered under questionable circumstances. And there was a whole ton of confusion and changing stories. Only during discovery has the stink even begun to lift.

 

[tbone1004]

@rjack321 IIRC in his lawsuit against IANTD he specifically said he was a safety diver.....

 

[Bubblesong]

Except after Rob's death Sortis was off to teach and dive the next weekend.

It is his job...

And Rob was recovered under questionable circumstances. And there was a whole ton of confusion and changing stories. Only during discovery has the stink even begun to lift.

During every death there are questions, even if they as as simple and plaintative as “whywhywhywhywhy”
“Stink” is a phrase that is used when there is no specific accusation that can be made, but people just expected more of the guy.

To answer Scott’s question about how many more deaths would put this guy out of business, It could be that Peter Sotis is still getting calls by videographers that want him to help them get awesome ocean video, (because of his renown), and he has not gone on any more high profile shows, so maybe it is PETER, who is turning down applicants he thinks are high risk, obsessive-compulsive nature videographers. Or it could be the showbiz side of his rebreather business is shunning Peter as a bad bet. But no more shows, am I right?

 

[tbone1004]

@Bubblesong rather bad form when you have been seriously injured diving and simultaneously had a student die on you...

 

[Bubblesong]

@Bubblesong rather bad form when you have been seriously injured diving and simultaneously had a student die on you...

As I understand the story, Peter Sotis was not injured, but hypoxic, which he had recovered from. And the Rob-student had finished the class. But still it must have led to a conversation with his subsequent-weekend-student, “I just dove with someone who died while diving with me, so do you still want to keep our appointment to dive, or would you like to postpone or cancel our dive lesson?” And the next weekend’s Student still wanted to dive with Peter Sotis, and I admit I’d like to know what THAT guy was thinking.

 

[rjack321]

@rjack321 IIRC in his lawsuit against IANTD he specifically said he was a safety diver.....

I have a hard time remembering everything in that thread. My understanding is that was in dispute?​

It is his job...

Yup and if this were any other commercial venture the State of FL would have shut his butt down for workplace safety violations long ago. In no other industry are client/student/worker bodies recovered by potentially liable parties, deaths attributed to the client's fault/responsibility, OSHA investigations blown off as not relevant, and subsequent civil litigation and insurance companies left to teased apart liability and responsibility.

Can you imagine if this were a fatality at a construction site?
1) the site would be shut down
2) potentially liable parties would not be collecting evidence
3) there would be an independent OSHA investigation
4) the employer is almost always somehow liable - even when the deceased failed to use required safety equipment or protocols
5) fines would be levied the magnitude of which would be proportional to the magnitude of the willful violations

Rob and his company were part of these workplace violations (which had occurred before) and that workplace culture developed in part as a result of the quality and character of the training received.

 

[reefrat]

Well said rjack321
We all want a dive industry that is not over regulated but sometimes it appears there is a perception that diving should be exempt from the standards by which the rest of our lives are controlled! Those standards are there for a reason!
It does no-one any good to have sub-standard or “reckless” activities conducted or condoned by dive related professionals, whether they are boat crew, instructors/ DM’s or safety diver’s.
Lower safety standards equal more accidents and more deaths, period.
Diving deaths are to be avoided at all cost- at all cost! Anyone who doubts this has never been involved in a recovery.