Crash dive?

[Wookie]

Well I read the RESA page and their minimum rebreather diver standards. I agree that they are minimum. Also, I did not find the section on How to Dive to 200 meters. While I went through all of the material it was really not necessary to read more than the first couple of paragraphs. They are an organization of volunteers that just magically popped up at the behest of diving rebreather manufactures. They have a pejorative. It is a, “who’s your daddy,” question they serve their masters as does NOAA. Who do you trust? By analogy, did your doctor go to a medical university? Or did she train at Pfizer? and I see your point.

The "How to dive to 200 meters"? That comes from IANTD standards for "Expedition Diver". The only "Expedition Divemaster" used to be my Diving Safety Officer on the Spree, and did, in fact, supervise a dive to 500 feet. Peter is an Expedition Instructor, or he was. So if you're looking up the 200 meter rules, Expedition Diver from IANTD is a place to start. But it's also important to remember, Peter has his own certification agency with it's own standards.

 

[uwxplorer]

Thank you for your post, I have reviewed the materials on the Horizon Divers thread with great interest. Also, with the greatest of respect, this is drifting into litigating the action on the internet it is beyond the scope of this thread, pointless, and a digression. In brief Horizon Divers has been named as a co-respondent in the action and they have a vested interest in the matter. As such to rush to judgement biased on an internet posting without the introduction of alternative points of view is foolish. Again, it is not my place to judge and I believe in the courts. Alternatively, the coroner appears to have a degree in science, an MD and specialization as a cornier, seven or eight years of education and many years of experience why discount his point of view for that of a dive charter operator? Also, as Mr. Stewart did not freeze to death, die as the result of trauma or starvation and was recovered from a little over 200' of water there is a strong and compelling argument that lack of oxygen had somewhere along the way resulted in death.

rEvo dropped Peter as an instructor? Who says rEvo gets to certify instructors? It may very well take specific technical instruction to dive there equipment and they can certainly supply that but what makes that person any kind of diving instructor unless they are certified elsewhere. They are technical support personal and nothing more.

Government run churches? I think not but government regulated, well. I think so. I do not think human sacrifice, even if it is part of your religious belief system should be tolerated. (Vested interest my neighbors are Aztec.) Diver training agencies are made up of diving wise men and women as opposed to a diving Messiah.

Interesting thoughts by my attention returns to the question at hand. What kind of message is Peter sending after surviving an event like this and then producing a video entitled Add Helium, How to Dive to 200 Meters?

Maybe you are not interested in facts, that is perfectly fine with me.
This post in that very long thread I was referring to does have exhibits of interest. Horizon Divers has nothing to do with them.
My point with mentioning that rEvo dropped an instructor, is that, for a diver applying due diligence, he/she would refuse to be trained by an instructor not on this list. Did Steward make due diligence (*)? He was after all looking for a "rebreather dive ninja"...
My point, when referring to your "cult" denomination, is that, until ruled otherwise, anyone is free to believe whatever they want, and in particular live dangerously.

I liked your thread about the Great Lake wrecks (similar to this), but I must confess that I am puzzled as to where this will all lead, as we pretty much all have our own opinion on this type of stories.

(*) Edit: I realize that this argument is moot, as there was probably no way to figure how borderline the practices preached by this specific instructor were, without prior and extensive rebreather diving experience...

 

[Bubblesong]

I liked your thread about the Great Lake wrecks (similar to this), but I must confess that I am puzzled as to where this will all lead, as we pretty much all have our own opinion on this type of stories.

This link is a great article about progress in diving over the years, and I was happy to read it. Within the article is someone that died as part of a diving team, with no mention of an ego-driven issue. So in balance, and considering perhaps Peter Sotis did NOT make a bragging video after leaving Rob Stewart in the water, can we come to a conclusion that Peter Sotis does not need a forehead tattoo of tiny Scuba Diver with X’s over them?

 

[Scott A McWilliam]

Well this thread seems to be tangled in a funny kind of way, no I will not be going to add helium for rebreather training. I own six of them and trust non of them. If I had a very good reason to dive mix I would still go OC. At sixty for, three reconstructive knee surgeries and a total shoulder replacement it seems prudent to dial back the deeper diving a bit. Again trying to return to the topic, his snappy little video production? Most of it has music with little dialogue the viewer is exposed to great video of divers in training in pool environments and apparently flying off to there dream 200 meter dive. It does not matter if you plan a 200 meter dive for eight months or eight years, what matters is if you have been in a diving accident four months ago and how appropriate the message you are sending in your video today. Everyone is entitled to an opinion some see it as reckless.

 

[Bubblesong]

@Scott McWilliam i reread the thread, but can’t find where you posted Peter Sotis video with the snappy presentation. If you could post that link it would help readers get a feel for your point of view in this discussion.

 

[rjack321]

@Scott McWilliam i reread the thread, but can’t find where you posted Peter Sotis video with the snappy presentation. If you could post that link it would help readers get a feel for your point of view in this discussion.

I suspect he means this video

 

[Scott A McWilliam]

Yes that is the video posted by patni

This link is a great article about progress in diving over the years, and I was happy to read it. Within the article is someone that died as part of a diving team, with no mention of an ego-driven issue. So in balance, and considering perhaps Peter Sotis did NOT make a bragging video after leaving Rob Stewart in the water, can we come to a conclusion that Peter Sotis does not need a forehead tattoo of tiny Scuba Diver with X’s over them?

Of course who said anything about tattoos? I am a reasonable guy how big a body count do you think he should be able to rack up, two, three, four?

I suspect he means this video

that is the clip "the add helium dive team" at least that is what is says.

"m sponcer Add Helieun

 

[Bubblesong]

I suspect he means this video

Was that video made in 2012? Re-posted to look new, but it was made 5 years prior to Rob Stewart death.

 

[rjack321]

Yes that is the video posted by patni


Of course who said anything about tattoos? I am a reasonable guy how big a body count do you think he should be able to rack up, two, three, four?


that is the clip "the add helium dive team" at least that is what is says.

"m sponcer Add Helieun

I think there was another one a few years ago from a class dive but I couldn't find it on RBW

 

[tbone1004]

@Bubblesong I sincerely hope you weren't serious about wanting to go to that instructor for CCR or deep training because they challenge themselves to go to 200m and market it. It is bragging rights, nothing more.
Going deep for the sake of going deep *what they're doing*, is getting a marketing edge, nothing more. You can go to cave country, Jersey, Hawaii, etc. and find a slew of instructors that have gone that deep, on rebreathers, and many who still go down there for real expedition, not to make a buck. They aren't out marketing it because they know that those who are really justified in wanting to go down there, will end up finding them anyway through the process. This shop happens to be the "big boy" in rebreathers because they made one helluva business doing it, but it doesn't mean they are the best, just the biggest. There is a reason they do not certify through any recognized agencies, it's because they can't, not because their "add helium certification" is better, it's because no one will allow them to teach through them anymore because of the liability. See @reefrat 's post if you don't believe me, and that's not the first time his or others experience has been posted on here. @The Chairman himself has some fun stories....

@Scott McWilliam the body count is a lot higher than that..... Now, on the CCR manufacturers being able to choose their instructors. They get to choose who is authorized to teach on their units, it also tends to coincide with who is allowed to sell those units because very few dive shops actually stock rebreathers. There are obviously a handful out there, Add Helium, Cave Country Dive Shop, Cave Adventurers, etc. but most of the CCR's sold are sold through independent instructors. If an agency approves of a rebreather, the manufacturer ends up training some quantity of their IT's on the units *who are also obviously instructor-dealers with most brands*, and then if an IT is to train another instructor, that instructor has to be approved by the manufacturer before they can go through that IT. I think it's entirely reasonable given the lawsuits that have gone around over the years with CCR's that if the manufacturer so chooses, they get final say in who is allowed to teach on their units. They don't get to set the training standards, just get a final nod on whether the instructor can be certified to teach their unit.