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Crappy Dive Boat on Maui Hawaii
- Thread starter floridagulfpalms
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While the actions of the DM were abhorrent and stupid, it does not change the fact that you chose to dive with them. No one forced you to follow the DM. Unless they had a gun to your head you as certified divers were under NO obligation to follow a dive plan that included harrassing critters, diving in a herd, or prevented you from staying away from said herd. I just got finished in another thread pointing out why I refuse to dive with ops that insist I follow a DM or frankly put one in the water to watch me.
On the occaisions that this has happened I politely but firmly told them that their plan was not mine. I might follow them or if I did not like what they were doing would simply leave them and follow my own plan. You did have the option, regardless of what they said to determine where the boat was, set your own heading, and dive a plan that was suitable and enjoyable to you. Had they objected a 1 finger salute would have been appropriate. I see some fault with the op but more with a certified diver who chose to follow them and frankly pay attention to more than site info, boat procedures, safety protocols, and time allowed in the water. The rest is irrelevant and not necessary to pay attention to.
On the occaisions that this has happened I politely but firmly told them that their plan was not mine. I might follow them or if I did not like what they were doing would simply leave them and follow my own plan. You did have the option, regardless of what they said to determine where the boat was, set your own heading, and dive a plan that was suitable and enjoyable to you. Had they objected a 1 finger salute would have been appropriate. I see some fault with the op but more with a certified diver who chose to follow them and frankly pay attention to more than site info, boat procedures, safety protocols, and time allowed in the water. The rest is irrelevant and not necessary to pay attention to.
Jim has a point and he's expressed it with his usual charm. 
In situations like the OP described (diving from a cattle boat) I usually "offer" to the DM to play the mop-up roll or in other words to follow the group at some distance and sweep up stragglers and make sure nobody gets left behind.
It's great. I can be part of the group without being part of the group and I don't need to be anywhere near the "blast zone" with all the ping-pong-ing beginners who follow the DM around like they're attached with a string.
In fact, that's really what's happened to floridapalms here. She's got 200 dives and doesn't want to be in the middle of the chaos anymore.... It's a sign that she's .... how do you say it. .... grown beyond the cattle boat mentality. Maybe it's time for her to start offering to play mop-up too.
Actually, as an instructor, it's very informative and a good learning experience to dive in the middle of these groups of beginners. It changes the way you look at training... LOL
R..
In situations like the OP described (diving from a cattle boat) I usually "offer" to the DM to play the mop-up roll or in other words to follow the group at some distance and sweep up stragglers and make sure nobody gets left behind.
It's great. I can be part of the group without being part of the group and I don't need to be anywhere near the "blast zone" with all the ping-pong-ing beginners who follow the DM around like they're attached with a string.
In fact, that's really what's happened to floridapalms here. She's got 200 dives and doesn't want to be in the middle of the chaos anymore.... It's a sign that she's .... how do you say it. .... grown beyond the cattle boat mentality. Maybe it's time for her to start offering to play mop-up too.
Actually, as an instructor, it's very informative and a good learning experience to dive in the middle of these groups of beginners. It changes the way you look at training... LOL
R..
I kind of liked coyotic frenzy.... had me thinking of a pack of coyotes, each grabbing an octopus leg in their jaws and shaking and ripping away.... painted an image quite well.
I have a feeling that, if one were doing the first dive with an operator, they'd be less than happy if you told them you were going to go off on your own and do as you pleased. You have to remember the general caliber of diver that they see . . . it's not the avid and experienced diver, but the person with 10 lifetime dives, and the person who hasn't been in the water in three years. And they KNOW that many divers feel that the guides are responsible for them, for navigation, for profile, and sometimes even for gas management. I forget this, because I live in a different diving universe, but I got reminded when I dove off the boat on the Big Island this trip, and the captain was simply adamant that I sit down on the swim step so he could get my gear off me. He clearly didn't very often see a woman my size and age who could carry her gear to her seat.
I also thought I'd add that it is not at all uncommon for Molokini boats to come in and do the second dive just offshore. One of the reasons we do mostly shore diving here is that, with our gas consumption, we can get to a lot of places the boats dive, or at least see the same things they do in the same water conditions. The main problem is that, although there are patchy reef structures between Molokini and shore, they tend to be deep (80 feet or so) and that makes for a VERY short second dive for most computers, after the 100+ first dive around the crater.
I would have been very annoyed at the guide molesting the octopus -- I have been before when they have done it. But a word to the guide, or a letter to the shop, is more focused than a SB post. And a calm exposition of the events is often a more damning account than a shrill one.
I also thought I'd add that it is not at all uncommon for Molokini boats to come in and do the second dive just offshore. One of the reasons we do mostly shore diving here is that, with our gas consumption, we can get to a lot of places the boats dive, or at least see the same things they do in the same water conditions. The main problem is that, although there are patchy reef structures between Molokini and shore, they tend to be deep (80 feet or so) and that makes for a VERY short second dive for most computers, after the 100+ first dive around the crater.
I would have been very annoyed at the guide molesting the octopus -- I have been before when they have done it. But a word to the guide, or a letter to the shop, is more focused than a SB post. And a calm exposition of the events is often a more damning account than a shrill one.
I'd like to mention, if any diver has the inclination not to follow the group, they really should check with the operator about their guided dive policy BEFORE booking. Guided dives are pretty much the norm in Hawaii, and lawsuit-wise, if the boat policy is guided dives a DM is at risk of being responsible for every diver in his/her watch even though they are all certified and supposedly able to fend for themselves.
Different boats have different policies. If one happens to hook up with an operator that does guided dives only, and heads off a different direction than the rest of the group, the DM is sort of obligated to stop the whole group and find or corral the stray diver... sort of messes up the experience for everyone. It's always helpful to check ahead and find a dive op that allows self guided dives.
I would like to hear a more detailed trip report; perhaps even starting with how you made the decision to book with Maui Diamond II. Did you go to Maui Dreams Dive Shop before going on the boat trip? Is this your first time diving in Hawaii?
How did the check in go at Ma'alaea Harbor? What day and what time of day was this trip? How was the weather? Did you see any whales?
Were there any other non-divers in your friends Intro group. Had they ever done an Intro Dive before? Did they go over the "Flip Chart" on the boat ride to Molokini? How well and where did they do their shallow water skills practice? Did they have successful dives?
How many groups were there? How many divers in your group? Did you get interviewed about your diving experience? Do you remember the dive site names, depths and your dive times? What dive site was the octopus handling at?
And finally, if you had good trips with another operator, please tell us who and give a similarly detailed trips account of them. For examples; were those trips the same time of day, did those trips have Intro divers on board, did the good boat crew handle any critters and were their second dives also close to shore?
How did the check in go at Ma'alaea Harbor? What day and what time of day was this trip? How was the weather? Did you see any whales?
Were there any other non-divers in your friends Intro group. Had they ever done an Intro Dive before? Did they go over the "Flip Chart" on the boat ride to Molokini? How well and where did they do their shallow water skills practice? Did they have successful dives?
How many groups were there? How many divers in your group? Did you get interviewed about your diving experience? Do you remember the dive site names, depths and your dive times? What dive site was the octopus handling at?
And finally, if you had good trips with another operator, please tell us who and give a similarly detailed trips account of them. For examples; were those trips the same time of day, did those trips have Intro divers on board, did the good boat crew handle any critters and were their second dives also close to shore?
divebri
Contributor
That was never truer than in Maui. I've never been to another place that had more hand-holding on boats (all of them) in my life. It was a big thrill once for me to have more air than anybody else (along with my son) and the dm to "allow" us to stay on the bottom for 3 whole extra minutes by ourselves while everyone else got back on the boat. Whoa, man. Talk about freedom!
A dm would crucify you if you went off on your own in Maui. I've been on all of them except Maui dreams, I think, and they're all pretty much the same.
Thing is, in most cases there are ways to do an appropriate amount of handholding the weak divers without hamstringing the good divers. Bottom times don't have to suffer just because some are heavier breathers than others. I've had more "good divers" that felt they didn't need to follow the policy of the boat ruin dives for other divers I felt were as good or better, than I've had poor divers ruin dives for good divers. Funny how that works, but it happens.
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