Continuing Education... Your thoughts?

[Ben_ca]

Y

1. the value of AOW and "when" it should be taken
2. the value of additional courses - "it's just the agencies making money."

as far as additional courses I would look into DIR-Fundamentals. Check out some of the class reports.... but then again this isn't for everyone. It is worth checking out though if you are serious about diving and improving your skills.

 

[pt40fathoms]

as far as additional courses I would look into DIR-Fundamentals. Check out some of the class reports.... but then again this isn't for everyone. It is worth checking out though if you are serious about diving and improving your skills.

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to chime in with this statement.

if you are serious about diving and improving your skills.

It's this type of blanket statement that says it all now doesn't it! I suppose that I'm just not serious about diving, and have very poor skills.

Con-Ed is a foundation of self improvment, regardless of the activity you are involved in. If you can get past the "old boys club" mentality and the self proclaimed "better than the rest" attitude that some individuals seem to have oozing out of their pores, then the DIR-F course would most certainly help. But it is NOT the only way to make you a better diver, and is in no way the only indication of how serious you are about being a better diver.

 

[MB]

... Remember that AOW won't TEACH you much. IMO - It's more of an opportunity to prove your skills to an instructor... It's just a stepping stone on to further certifications. It's something that most of us are required to do, to be able to continue further in our diving education (rescue, DM, master Scuba Diver, etc.)

Know that there is an amazing amount of variability in what people teach, and what people learn. There are frequent discussions on SB about what is / should be in different classes. The variability in class content also differs from class to class -- taught by the same instructor. And that's a good thing, if the instructor is customizing a class to meet the needs of the student! A few rules of thumb:

1. Some advanced (AOW) classes do not teach much, but are simply guided dives. (Shame on the instructor who doesn't have the professional orientation to teach, even when given the opportunity and willing students!)

2. Other advanced classes teach a lot and include both classroom and pool work.

3. The curriculum for two advanced classes may differ significantly, even tho there will be some similar topics. For example an advanced class for a newer or a novice diver should have a very different focus than the advanced class for students with a richer diving history.

4. An advanced certification is not necessarily a "stepping stone" to other continuing education. Sometimes this is determined by training agencies' standards (they do differ) and sometimes by individual instructors. For example, a rescue or nitrox class may not require an advanced certification, depending on the instructor and agency.

5. A diver with an advanced certification who has also learned rescue and perhaps nitrox if that's relevant to his/her diving interests might well decide that additional courses aren't necessary. There are a lot of skilled divers who were thoroughly trained in their basic courses. Many of these folks do not collect cards. OTOH, some divers (including instructors and course directors) will seek out future courses as their diving interests and needs change. Not to sound too much like Ben Franklin, but learning is good.

6. Depending on whom you talk to about continuing ed courses, training sometimes trumps marketing; sometimes marketing trumps training.

Its always fun to see the cyber wizards proclaim what can and can't / should and shouldn't be taught in different courses. Bottom line, before you sign up for a continuing ed class, make sure there is some real content to it, and that it meets your own needs.

 

[spectrum]

Continuous Education is important, at least to a point of being truly competent in your realm. At some point it becomes persuit of a dive professional position and that's great for those seeking such status in the sport.

Continuous diving is equally and perhaps more important.

If you come out of OW uncomfortable doing a basic shore dive with peers there should be another option besides AOW. Hauling hesitant new divers into the deep or the night, teaching fish ID or photography does not address the inadequacy of the OW training. Unfortunately using AOW as an extension of OW for this purpose is common and thankfully it seems to work for many who go that route.

I think it's best to assimilate and hone skills one group at a time. This is a sport where reacting instictively is important and deveoping those reactions takes time. It's a balance of education and execution.

Pete

 

[Jeddah Aquanaut]

Joe,

I have often spoken up with regards to this topic. I do believe in continuing education, and plan on doing Rescue Diver in December. I didn't get my AOW card until my 50th dive. Really, the main reason I got my AOW was to be "allowed" to dive the Spiegel Grove unescorted by a DM. Additionally, AOW is required for Rescue Diver, which interests both me and my wife (a former lifeguard).

Remember that AOW won't TEACH you much. IMO - It's more of an opportunity to prove your skills to an instructor. I think it is a good thing to get "under your belt" but I also think that people should not RUSH into collection C-Cards, as we see all too often here on SB.

If you read through some people's trouble with their AOW, it boils down to the fact that they're just not experienced enough.

Also... You'll probably see that more experienced divers regard AOW as a tour, and not really a challenge at all. (this is how I felt about it)

So to sum up my opinions on this... AOW - not a way to be a BETTER diver... It's just a stepping stone on to further certifications. It's something that most of us are required to do, to be able to continue further in our diving education (rescue, DM, master Scuba Diver, etc.)

Yes, this is a good topic. Experience does not mean necessarily taking more courses. Courses like the AOW, as was stated above, give you the chance to show your skill to an instructor. To me, experience is best gained by diving. After my first 10 dives, I was lucky to find a friend who was more advanced, but didn't mind taking a novice diver along. I built up my logbook, and took AOW at about 30 dives. I did Rescue at about 60, and Dive Master at 90 or so. I did the courses, because it was my goal to get to DM, but I wanted more experience first. PADI (as well as OTHER organisations) allow for a more rapid advancement, but that doesn't mean one has to follow it. Like other people have stated, it depends on what you want to do with diving, but diving with other experienced buddies is the ultimate experience-builder. After a point, then you become an "experienced" diver, but no matter how many dives one does, there's always more to learn. Using your head is what matters. I've seen very level-headed novices, and foolish risk-taking "experienced" divers.

 

[HowardE]

MB - I agree for the most part with what you've said. I was in no way proclaiming myslef ultimately knowledgeable in this field, but I have often discussed just this topic with both PADI and NAUI instructors whom I know personally. Everything I said is merely my opinion, and MY experience with AOW.

I have a good instructor with whom I plan on taking further courses like Rescue soon.

I also dive frequently with my instructor as he is often on the boat I dive with.

Let me give a little more background on my AOW experience. With PADI, the options for AOW include deep, wreck, drift, boat, night, navigation. Navigation was cool, as I don't often have to swim a square. However, I typically dive a reef that is 60' deep, while drift diving from a boat. (common in S Florida) ... I had also done several wrecks before I got my AOW card. So in MY CASE, it was very little "teaching" and mostly just diving with my instructor who knew I was skilled.

I do realize that for many people... Diving from a boat, or drift diving is NEW to them, and they would probably learn more than I did.

From what I understand, NAUI has more requirements, and skills than PADI requires for their AOW... so like MB was saying - know what you're going to be in for, and if you're looking for a challenge, you may or may not find one with your current cert agency.

To sum up - I think continuing education is good FOR ME. I have interest in continuing maybe all the way to instructor some day... I'm in no hurry, the ocean isn't going anywhere, and I'm still relatively young (36). I am certainly not a know it all, nor do I proclaim to be one. I am just a guy who likes diving, and doesn't like hearing about people taking courses just see who can collect c-cards the fastest. Lastly, IMHO I think that (as I've said in other threads) there should be a pre-requisite # of dives required before students are even allowed to take their AOW and/or Rescue, etc. I think that PADI's requirement of 50 dives for DM isn't enough either, but again this is just my opinion.

For the record... I have 90 dives, and I have been diving for 2 years. The first year, I think I only dove 10 times, where the other 80 have been in the past 12 months.

 

[HowardE]

I should also add that I agree totally with the people quoting me so far... I believe that the best education is EXPERIENCE, not BOOK KNOWLEDGE. I did NOT go to college, but I own 3 successful retail stores.

Yes - LEARNING is GOOD!

Knowledge and WISDOM are 2 different things... Knowledge and experience lead to true wisdom.

 

[Bratface]

Like OP said, continuing ed helps you get the skills you need to build your confidence. My most valuable specialty classes were Stress & Rescue, and Deep Diving. By continuing to take classes, I was constantly diving and constantly learning. I am a much more confident diver and a better diver than if I hadn't taken classes.

 

[creamofwheat]

I was just OW certified last weekend and haven't managed to go on my first dive yet. But to tell you the truth, I don't feel confident yet. I mean, I wasdnt able to stop for a safety stop, I had to be overweighted so I could get down, and yes, buoyancy is a huge issue for me. I find it really difficult. And no, i don't feel confident yet.

However, I plan on diving before I take the AOW class. I don't feel ready for the AOW class yet either. I am not ready to go to 100ft, or dive at night. But on the other hand, I guess I am one of the very lucky few who have good friends who are actually instructors, and are willing to take me out on some fun dives and work with me on my skills until I feel more confident...and I plan on using their kindness. I am going diving next weekend with one of these people, and he has promised to help me improve my skills. And the more I dive, the more confidence I will gain. So I guess I am really lucky that I have this option.

That being said, I think continuing education is essential! Experience is definitely essential as well. I think there is a balance...experience helps us improve skills and become better divers, and so does education. I think we all need to have both elements. :14:

 

[joe rock]

If you come out of OW uncomfortable doing a basic shore dive with peers there should be another option besides AOW. Hauling hesitant new divers into the deep or the night, teaching fish ID or photography does not address the inadequacy of the OW training. Unfortunately using AOW as an extension of OW for this purpose is common and thankfully it seems to work for many who go that route.


Pete

Spectrum, I'm sure you don't mean this as a "shot" to myself or the people who posted that taking AOW shortly after their certification helped with their confidence. There is a big difference with not comfortable enough diving with other inexperienced divers after a whopping 4 dives and someone who is "hesitant".

Also, I didn't say, nor did the other posters that they had inadequate training. Actually, I think my OW training was excellent. As I watch other divers, some with significantly more "experience" than I have, I am convinced my OW & AOW training was excellent.

To your point as I said in an early post maybe the problem is calling it "Advanced". I like the poster who called it OW2. You're closing statement seems to support this position.

In this and other threads where diverse opinions are encouraged, we need to be careful we don't make gross generalizations.