Continuing Education... Your thoughts?

[joe rock]

Years ago when my son tested for his blackbelt I remember his instructor saying that getting to blackbelt only gave you the knowledge to begin the study of karate.

I look at OW & AOW cerification the same way.

There are two topics I've seen get lots of debate on this board. They are:

1. the value of AOW and "when" it should be taken
2. the value of additional courses - "it's just the agencies making money."

Personally, I didn't feel I was anything close to a capable diver after my OW even though I completed all the skills with no problem at all. Not enough confidence to dive by myself and yet didn't want to be a hinderence to a more experienced diver. So I took my AOW immediately following my OW and the 6 extra dives with an instructor, plus the reinforcement of good skills plus the new stuff I learned gave me considerably more confidence. (No I don't consider myself an "advanced" diver even though I have a card - but I don't believe that's what the card means either).

Also, I am a strong believer in continuing education. I signed up or plan to take additional courses because I believe I can learn more, faster, from a good instructor than on my own and want to become a better diver.

How confident were you immediately after your OW and what's your opinion on continuing your diving education?

 

[HowardE]

Joe,

I have often spoken up with regards to this topic. I do believe in continuing education, and plan on doing Rescue Diver in December. I didn't get my AOW card until my 50th dive. Really, the main reason I got my AOW was to be "allowed" to dive the Spiegel Grove unescorted by a DM. Additionally, AOW is required for Rescue Diver, which interests both me and my wife (a former lifeguard).

Remember that AOW won't TEACH you much. IMO - It's more of an opportunity to prove your skills to an instructor. I think it is a good thing to get "under your belt" but I also think that people should not RUSH into collection C-Cards, as we see all too often here on SB.

If you read through some people's trouble with their AOW, it boils down to the fact that they're just not experienced enough.

Also... You'll probably see that more experienced divers regard AOW as a tour, and not really a challenge at all. (this is how I felt about it)

So to sum up my opinions on this... AOW - not a way to be a BETTER diver... It's just a stepping stone on to further certifications. It's something that most of us are required to do, to be able to continue further in our diving education (rescue, DM, master Scuba Diver, etc.)

 

[ProfessorAronnax]

Continuing Dive education is paramount. I think just checking out SB is a great to way to increase your dive knowledge on several topics-and cost effective! As far as taking additional courses, I'm sure they're good learning experiences-but it's a judgement call regarding cost. Sometimes just getting together with your local dive club can offer some great educational opportunites.

Rap

 

[Al Mialkovsky]

Right after open water class I was pretty confident but I had been diving without a card for a couple of years already, then suddenly the shop refused to fill my tanks because of some silly rule requiring a C card.

con-ed is bashed by lots of guys who will never be allowed to dive the same dives advanced divers or master divers get to dive.

I teach con-ed classes to divers with hundreds of dives and so far I believe all of them took something valuable away from the class. They might know 90% of it but they'll learn something. On the other hand I sit in con-ed classes with other instructors and I always appreciate something from the class. If not new information at least a new way to get the information across.

 

[joe rock]

Joe,

Remember that AOW won't TEACH you much. IMO - It's more of an opportunity to prove your skills to an instructor. I think it is a good thing to get "under your belt" but I also think that people should not RUSH into collection C-Cards, as we see all too often here on SB.

If you read through some people's trouble with their AOW, it boils down to the fact that they're just not experienced enough.

Also... You'll probably see that more experienced divers regard AOW as a tour, and not really a challenge at all. (this is how I felt about it)

So to sum up my opinions on this... AOW - not a way to be a BETTER diver... It's just a stepping stone on to further certifications. It's something that most of us are required to do, to be able to continue further in our diving education (rescue, DM, master Scuba Diver, etc.)

Interesting perspective. In your position, I can definetly see your point - for an experienced diver I can see how you'd view it as a "tour".

For me taking AOW immediatley did teach me several things specifically the navigation dive and the search and recovery dive. Both did a lot to improve my buoyancy skills not to mention the navigation experience gained. I dive primarily in the north east; cold water and low vis. Gave me a confidence going to 90' the first time with an instructor.

I don't advocate collecting c-cards (I'm way to old for that stuff :05: ) but I like to learn. Interesting enough I would like to take the rescue course, but don't think my skills are good enough yet. Your comments about just a tour and learn nothing might suggest it is of much more value to take early in your dive career. Maybe the problem is the name.

 

[TSandM]

Joe, I felt just like you (or maybe even worse). After OW, I was quite sure I was not safe to just go diving. It wasn't that I couldn't clear my mask, it was that I was still quite disoriented underwater, and very apprehensive. To be honest, I don't think I should have been passed out of OW at that point. But I'm not stupid, and I knew how weak I was, so I, too, went directly into AOW as a means of doing more dives with an instructor. To tell you how bad things were, I did most of the first AOW dive holding my instructor's hand!

I don't think I learned a great deal from the AOW dives in terms of new information or techniques, but they did give me time to settle down and begin to control my buoyancy.

I have since seen the outline of an AOW class that would have been quite different -- much "meatier" in terms of information (eg. gas and dive planning). I don't know how readily available such a course is -- I rather suspect it's unique to the individual who designed it.

I believe there are a lot of divers out there who want to be better trained and have more confidence in their own skills. I think it isn't easy for people to find advanced training that has teeth, unless they go to one of the agencies teaching technical diving courses.

 

[SadiesMom]

You very often see debates on when to take AOW (or whether AOW is even necessary) - many people will say AOW shouldn't be taken until the diver has X number of dives under their belt and other will say that AOW is fine to take right after OW.

Personally, like TS&M and Joe, I took AOW right after OW. And like TS&M, I knew that AOW did NOT make me an "advanced" diver. But, like TS&M, I knew that after OW, I did not feel comfortable going out with one other member of my OW class as a buddy team and diving by ourselves. Yes, I could easily do the skills and yes, I *knew* what I should do to dive safely. But I just didn't feel entirely confident. And having those extra 5 dives under different conditions under the supervision of an instructor gave me MUCH more confidence. In my case, diving in the conditions where I dive, probably the MOST important dive was the Navigation dive. Here in New England, where vis is often under 10 feet, knowing EXACTLY how to use a compass WELL and trust myself and it, I suddenly felt MUCH more confident that I could get myself and my buddy back to shore at the end of a dive.

I do think that it's crucial that an AOW instructor make it clear to his/her students that despite the name, taking the course does NOT make one an "advanced" diver. Only experience can do that. Personally, I'd like to see the name of the PADI course changed to "OW II".

I also believe that all divers should take their continuing education to the level of Rescue before stopping. Ask any diver who's taken Rescue and pretty much without exception they'll tell you that Rescue is the best course they've ever taken. Probably the best takeaway you get from Rescue is the ability to spot problems and fix them BEFORE they become major issues - not only in other divers, but in YOURSELF. Learning how to *avoid* having to do a fullblown in-water rescue if that's at all possible is easily as important as learning how to *do* one. But knowing how to do both will increase your confidence as a diver immeasurably and make you a MUCH safer diver for yourself, your buddy, and anyone else in the water near you.

My $0.02...

 

[D_B]

What joe rock , TS&M , and SadiesMom said , especially about Rescue

Why do AOW after you have a bunch of dives if It's only going to be a "tour" to you ?
Do it early when you can benefit from the instruction
And do Rescue as soon as you can, It's never too early to become a safer diver, it was the hardest, most rewarding thing I have done.

DB

 

[markfm]

I did AOW after about 20 dives -- I was able to get out pretty much every weekend after OW cert, worked trim/buoyancy myself, but knew I needed/wanted AOW for deep and night diving.

I've only taken one specialty class, drysuit, which involved picking up a few skills that were good to practice with an Instructor in a pool. Others haven't done so, been fine, on the other hand yet other people have tried without the class, done a few feet first and determined it was time to get trained.

Rescue was a super class -- did that at near 70 dives. I agree with people who say every diver really ought to go through that class if they plan on doing much diving.

I definitely wouldn't have wanted to try to go OW-AOW-Rescue without intermediate dives. Rescue, particularly, is learning to recognize problems before they arise, and then deal with them, in other people, and you really should be a pretty comfortable diver, know your equipment well and be confident, to get the most from that class.

 

[O.P.]

I'm also in favor on continuing education. Not only for the skills you pick up but for a confidence building standpoint.
I did my AOW after ~10 dives. I wasn't searching to learn new skills (except Nitrox which I did as part of my AOW) but I really needed to feel more confortable under water especially past 100 ft.
After AOW, I dove locally to get use to my gear and diving in general and I then did my Rescue class.
Those will be the 3 classed I recommend. As far as speciality classes are concerned. I'm a little on the fence. I'm took the one I needed for the type of dive I do i.e. dry suit. But I don't think I will take another PADI speciality class such as UW photography soon.
My next step is probably the divemaster class and an deco/advanced Nitrox.

All in all, I'm at the point where I feel confidence underwater and I want to learn more advanced skills, that is the reaason why I'm going towards deco diving.
OP