Continuing Ed. or just paying to dive..

[MikeFerrara]

The quality of the courses depends entirely on the outlook and intent of the instructor(s) teaching to the course, which I'm sure you know - Why the hate for the wreck course?

The quality of the course is first determined by the standards as written by the agency.
Wreck Diving is a course that definitely holds value - Anyone interested in pursuing wreck diving should take it as an intro course - I have no doubt in warm areas that the course is probably lackluster at best, but my observation of the instruction of this course on the Canadian West coast has been that the instructional quality has been top notch (having heard by word of mouth). By and large, doing even non-penetration wreck dives in the environment Canadian waters offer is beyond intimidating - Having supervised instruction, basically a mentor to take you on a tour, is the safest way to decide if you want to continue your wreck diving education.

The wreck course is just flat out scary. The course optionally includes penetration however the instructor can qualify to teach the course without ever having had any training in overhead diving themselves. No line drills are required on land and the line drills required in open water don't even come close to what is required in any cavern course. And then there's the gas management issue. They don't bother teaching you to shoot a bag in this course either. The course certainly doesn't present much information on "wrecks". I don't even see how they could call it a wreck diving course.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I love the Brits. They're a nation with fine cusine, perfect teeth, cold beer, excellent car electrics and perfect engine gaskets.

... in my vision of Hell, the Brits are the cooks ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[gcbryan]

Quote: To do a full navigation speciality(3 hrs academic presentation 2 dives)..full deep speciality..(3 hrs presentation and 2 dives)..full boat speciality(with boat fees) a full day 2 dives maybe 1 hr presentation)..night dive speciality (2 hr presentation 2 night dives) search recovery speciality (2 hrs presentation 2 dives)..so we are looking at 11-12 hrs of classroom time and 5 days of diving which lets conservatively say is about 20 hrs...total of 32 hours..How much are you willing to pay??Remember this does not include any boat fees which can run $75.-$100. per day..End Quote

Here in a nutshell lies my point:
Nav Dive: I already did the book work per the AOW requirement I already did one dive dedicated to Nav so I have little or no classwork and 1 additional dive to do for the "specialty".
Boat Dive: I already did the book work per the AOW requirement and had two dives from a boat ( I know of nobody that goes out on a boat for AOW and only does 1 dive) so from what I can see no additional time is required for this "specialty".
Nite Dive: I already did the book work per the AOW requirement and had 1 dive. So I have little or no classwork and 1 additional dive to do for this "specialty".
Underwater Naturalist: I already did the book work per the AOW requirement and have 1 Dive. So I have little or no classwork and no additional requirements for this "specialty".

The presentation time you speak of is I assume the video plus question and answer which by PADI standards does not need to be done in the classroom (for the specialties I listed). Your total additional investment is two additional shore dives and no equipment cost. For your additional investment you charge on average $500 plus cert fees. I mean come on! Book work or DVD as the case may be is the same for both the AOW as it is for the specialty. How can you even pretend that this is in the interests of the student?

It's really hard to figure out what your point is. At first it seemed that you felt that you were not getting a "complete education". But now you feel that you've already done most of the work/reading and feel that you would be charged too much to get all of the specialty certification cards. If you feel that you have nothing more to learn why do you care about collecting specialty cards?

 

[Divedoggie]

Seriously, Brits make the best music.
Zeplin, Who, Stones, Clapton, Police, Beatles, Pink Floyd, Kinks, etc.

Noobascuba...seeing as how I like Brits, and PADI, and the Con-Ed opportunities, what say you for learning to drysuit dive pretty soon?

 

[Divingdon]

I personally really enjoyed doing con-ed while I was growing up as a diver. Today all my OWC students laugh when they hear the PADI mantra, of 'Go Places, Do Things and Meet People', from chapter 5. I lived in Japan when I started diving, dive classes there are very expensive and I didn't speak enough Japanese to learn effectively there. So what did I do? OWC in Vietnam, AOWC in Australia, fun dives in the Phillipines, Rescue in Thailand, then back to Vietnam for DM and Instructor. Whilst on my DMT program if any course was running I could join in for free and even got the cert for free. Personally going on holiday, learning some more about diving and meeting people whilst there was perfect. So far in total including flights, accomodation, equipment, materials etc etc, i've probably spent about $20,000 to get to where I am now. I'm very happy that I've travelled these countries, meet people and gained the confidence and experience. Now I'm in the Red Sea diving everyday, I'm one very happy bunny.
I have no desire to return to "normal life" of years based in one location, I intend to keep on Going Places, Doing Things and Meeting People.

 

[josh]

What I am infering is that the system of training is not designed as much to educate as it is to make money off your students.

PADI (Im using them ONLY because I was trained by PADI) places boat, nav, night and deep dives in there requirements for AOW. If you charge extra for those items you

You are clearly hold strong views on all this, but unfortunately much of what you base your views on is simply incorrect. PADI does *not* make boat, nav, night and deep as requirements for the AOW. There are only 2 *required* dives, Nav and deep. The remaining three dives are optional in that what dives you do are up to the agreement of you and your instructor - as well as realities, so, for example, opting to do "dry suit" ain't gonna go far in the tropics.

The reality of diving is that what you get out of it reflects what you put into it. You can dive for the rest of your diving career on an open water card (and many people do just that, I know divers with several hundred dives, all done on an open water card).

What the advanced course *tries* to do is give you a *taste* of various environments and options for you while diving, as well as exposing you to greater depths in a structured environment while under supervision. Is *everything* you need to know about deep or nav or night covered in a single dive or a single chapter in the AOW dive? No, of course it is not. Are 90% of the divers *better* divers comming out of the AOW than going in? Yes, they are. Do you get much more information doing the speciality course (each with its own book by the way, not just the chapter from Adventures in Diving). Yes, you do. (and by the way, while I am not a speciality instructor, I am also pretty sure the night diver course is 4 dives, not two as in your post).

None of the courses after open water are compulsory. You need never do another dive course again, for as long as you dive. However, I will tell you that, even as an Instructor, I am still learning. One of the things I personally like is that with diving, there is *always* more to learn. However, its up to you whether you want to expand your horizons, or keep them where they are.
-j-

 

[Bruciebabe]

Really? Why? I can’t see needing formal instruction and a guide to look at the outside of a wreck. My first wreck dive (as a kid) was on the San Diego off the Long Island shore. I did nothing but go about the outside and pick up some scattered .30-06 ammo, I had a ball and was not at all intimidated.

I have taught this course.
With line laying practice on land, then on the outside of the wreck, then on the inside of the wreck.
In order to teach this course I had to go on a wreck instructor course.

Of course it helps that I am cave certified and have TDI Advanced Wreck as well. As I said in an earlier post these PADI speciality courses depend more on the individual instructor than OW and AOW do.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I have taught this course.
With line laying practice on land, then on the outside of the wreck, then on the inside of the wreck.
In order to teach this course I had to go on a wreck instructor course.

Of course it helps that I am cave certified and have TDI Advanced Wreck as well. As I said in an earlier post these PADI speciality courses depend more on the individual instructor than OW and AOW do.

You may have taken the instructor course but you don't need to. You can qualify to teach the PADI wreck diving specialty by having certified 25 students and doing 20 "wreck dives" applying to PADI. It's pretty easy to get in 20 wreck dives since any old UP pile of junk qualifies as a wreck.

In fact, around here, the class is often taught on sunken cars and trucks in quarries. I too did the instructors course. During the instructors course we swam through a sunken school buss in a 25 ft deep quarry. LOL then I was able to teach wreck diving.

 

[tedtim]

You Brits must compensate for your small phallic sizes by verbally abashing your neighbor across the sea, eh??

Wait a minute! Are you really Canadian (eh?) masquerading as an American (huh?)

 

[Thalassamania]

There are only 2 *required* dives, Nav and deep. ...

What the advanced course *tries* to do is give you a *taste* of various environments and options for you while diving, as well as exposing you to greater depths in a structured environment while under supervision. ...

None of the courses after open water are compulsory. You need never do another dive course again, for as long as you dive. However, I will tell you that, even as an Instructor, I am still learning. One of the things I personally like is that with diving, there is *always* more to learn. However, its up to you whether you want to expand your horizons, or keep them where they are.
-j-

Everything provided in Navigation and Deep (and more) used to be integral parts of an entry level course but now are a separately priced product.