Considering diving, BP/W is ok?

[NAM001]

Perhaps an aspect of not selling BP/W is that you cant sell the minimalist concept and also sell a lot of junk on the walls

 

[boulderjohn]

Perhaps an aspect of not selling BP/W is that you cant sell the minimalist concept and also sell a lot of junk on the walls

It's easy to get cynical, but in the shops with which I have worked, there is nothing nefarious involved. The truth is, when you get people involved in this kind of gear, they buy a lot more of that extra stuff, and the stuff they buy costs a lot more than the usual doodads. The real issue is that don't use that gear themselves, they have not seen people use that gear themselves, and they don't understand that gear.

More importantly, they don't think it will sell. They are very much afraid, and rightly so, of having unsold inventory on hand, which can create a serious cash flow problem for a shop trying to get by in trying times. In the past couple of years, several shops in our area have folded, including the one that focused the most on technical diving. This fear is made all the worse by the policies of some of the companies that make the most popular tech gear. If you want to sell their gear, you need to commit to a certain initial and annual volume, and if it doesn't sell, that means you have a HUGE amount of unsold inventory. (Not all companies do that, but most do.) If you are a shop that has been getting by for years without it, going in that direction is very much a marketing risk that could put you out of business.

When they do take the step, they are afraid to go all in, so that first step is tentative. They take precautions in case it doesn't sell, and those precautions keep it from selling. It thus becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. "I was afraid it wouldn't sell, so I didn't commit a lot of time and energy to it. I only bought as little as I could, and I didn't make a big promotional push. As I was afraid, it didn't sell, so my precautions were wise."

I'm doing my best to change the culture in our area, but I fully understand the problem.

 

[fjpatrum]

I'm a little late to the party with my vote but basically I voted to "buy what you want". I tried the X-Tek and found it to be uncomfortable with too many bells and whistles compared to my simple harness. I also found it to be about 4 times more expensive than my bp/w and harness. I preferred the transplate and wing to the x-tek, but I prefer my plate with simple harness to both.

I'm less comfortable in a jacket but I can dive one. Similarly, I can dive any back inflate BC out there too. In the end, once you're comfortable in the water, you can use whichever one is available almost equally well and certainly well enough to do a couple of rec dives for a day.

As for regs, buy whatever you can get serviced and fits your budget. They all work well enough that it won't really matter unless you're diving cold water (<45 F). If that's the case, get a sealed reg in whatever brand/model you like. Personally, I don't buy new regs, they're way too expensive and the whole "free service parts for life" thing is a gimmick that isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Regs are incredibly easy to service yourself and even if you don't service your own the service cost is pretty low compared to the other costs of scuba.

That said, I dive a scubapro mk10/G250 with a void/swimaster MR12 II octo. They both breath really well and I've used them down to ~42F water temps with no issues whatsoever. I haven't tried the Apex or HOG regs but I believe they're basically the same design (I may be wrong about which reg the HOGs are modeled after). The HOG is significantly cheaper, though. All three (as well as a whole slew of other options) will be more than sufficient for any diving you're going to do.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I have NEVER seen anyone try a BP/W properly fitted and want to go back to a jacket BC. Has anyone else?

No, never.

---------- Post added December 14th, 2013 at 08:53 PM ----------

It's easy to get cynical, but in the shops with which I have worked, there is nothing nefarious involved. The truth is, when you get people involved in this kind of gear, they buy a lot more of that extra stuff, and the stuff they buy costs a lot more than the usual doodads. The real issue is that don't use that gear themselves, they have not seen people use that gear themselves, and they don't understand that gear.

More importantly, they don't think it will sell. They are very much afraid, and rightly so, of having unsold inventory on hand, which can create a serious cash flow problem for a shop trying to get by in trying times. In the past couple of years, several shops in our area have folded, including the one that focused the most on technical diving. This fear is made all the worse by the policies of some of the companies that make the most popular tech gear. If you want to sell their gear, you need to commit to a certain initial and annual volume, and if it doesn't sell, that means you have a HUGE amount of unsold inventory. (Not all companies do that, but most do.) If you are a shop that has been getting by for years without it, going in that direction is very much a marketing risk that could put you out of business.

When they do take the step, they are afraid to go all in, so that first step is tentative. They take precautions in case it doesn't sell, and those precautions keep it from selling. It thus becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. "I was afraid it wouldn't sell, so I didn't commit a lot of time and energy to it. I only bought as little as I could, and I didn't make a big promotional push. As I was afraid, it didn't sell, so my precautions were wise."

I'm doing my best to change the culture in our area, but I fully understand the problem.

This hits it dead on, I couldn't have worded it better myself.

There's a shop close to me that I used to frequent, (used to).
One day the owner and I had a conversation about BP/W.
First of all he's a total anti DIR and has no use for them. I'm not DIR either, but I don't have the contempt this guy has either. I'm nuetral on the subject.
As far as he's concerned all BP/W are a bunch of "DIR crap" and nobody but those A-holes use that stuff anyway.
He pointed out a plate he had hanging on the wall, down low, in a corner, alone, no wing or harness on it. It was an Apex plate.
He points to it and says "There, there's your F-ing plate right there, now sitting in the same spot for an F-ing year!!!"
My reply was a calm "Hey Tom, have you ever even tried a BP/W?".
He'd never even tried one or knew how to set one up much less. I told him that if he really wanted to sell BP/W he should at least use one and get his instructors to use them and promote them to his open water divers.
He just wouldn't hear it.
Unfortunately, there are so many people like him in the LDS business.

 

[James R]

With that attitude, I expect that plate will be there a long time.

 

[scubafanatic]

It's easy to get cynical, but in the shops with which I have worked, there is nothing nefarious involved. The truth is, when you get people involved in this kind of gear, they buy a lot more of that extra stuff, and the stuff they buy costs a lot more than the usual doodads. The real issue is that don't use that gear themselves, they have not seen people use that gear themselves, and they don't understand that gear.

More importantly, they don't think it will sell. They are very much afraid, and rightly so, of having unsold inventory on hand, which can create a serious cash flow problem for a shop trying to get by in trying times. In the past couple of years, several shops in our area have folded, including the one that focused the most on technical diving. This fear is made all the worse by the policies of some of the companies that make the most popular tech gear. If you want to sell their gear, you need to commit to a certain initial and annual volume, and if it doesn't sell, that means you have a HUGE amount of unsold inventory. (Not all companies do that, but most do.) If you are a shop that has been getting by for years without it, going in that direction is very much a marketing risk that could put you out of business.

When they do take the step, they are afraid to go all in, so that first step is tentative. They take precautions in case it doesn't sell, and those precautions keep it from selling. It thus becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. "I was afraid it wouldn't sell, so I didn't commit a lot of time and energy to it. I only bought as little as I could, and I didn't make a big promotional push. As I was afraid, it didn't sell, so my precautions were wise."

I'm doing my best to change the culture in our area, but I fully understand the problem.

I live in Arlington, TX, population 370,000 : # of 'tech' dive shops in Arlington = 0 ( the last 'tech' shop was Surface Interval Scuba which went out of business a few yrs ago)
I'm next door to Ft Worth TX, population 770,000 : # of 'tech' dive shops in Ft. Worth = 1 (Lone Star Scuba of Ft. Worth) (the other 'tech' shop was Southern Scuba, which went under 8-10 yrs ago)

 

[NAM001]

Sorry my point was that th shops that sell backplates dont have junk to sell. the crap is tossed for realfunctional reliable equipment, as opposed to retractable reels for compasses ect. Too many shops sell this cause teh good stuff costs too much.

It's easy to get cynical, but in the shops with which I have worked, there is nothing nefarious involved. The truth is, when you get people involved in this kind of gear, they buy a lot more of that extra stuff, and the stuff they buy costs a lot more than the usual doodads. The real issue is that don't use that gear themselves, they have not seen people use that gear themselves, and they don't understand that gear.

More importantly, they don't think it will sell. They are very much afraid, and rightly so, of having unsold inventory on hand, which can create a serious cash flow problem for a shop trying to get by in trying times. In the past couple of years, several shops in our area have folded, including the one that focused the most on technical diving. This fear is made all the worse by the policies of some of the companies that make the most popular tech gear. If you want to sell their gear, you need to commit to a certain initial and annual volume, and if it doesn't sell, that means you have a HUGE amount of unsold inventory. (Not all companies do that, but most do.) If you are a shop that has been getting by for years without it, going in that direction is very much a marketing risk that could put you out of business.

When they do take the step, they are afraid to go all in, so that first step is tentative. They take precautions in case it doesn't sell, and those precautions keep it from selling. It thus becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. "I was afraid it wouldn't sell, so I didn't commit a lot of time and energy to it. I only bought as little as I could, and I didn't make a big promotional push. As I was afraid, it didn't sell, so my precautions were wise."

I'm doing my best to change the culture in our area, but I fully understand the problem.

---------- Post added December 14th, 2013 at 09:53 PM ----------

I guess scuba toys is as close as you can get.

I live in Arlington, TX, population 370,000 : # of 'tech' dive shops in Arlington = 0 ( the last 'tech' shop was Surface Interval Scuba which went out of business a few yrs ago)
I'm next door to Ft Worth TX, population 770,000 : # of 'tech' dive shops in Ft. Worth = 1 (Lone Star Scuba of Ft. Worth) (the other 'tech' shop was Southern Scuba, which went under 8-10 yrs ago)

 

[gcarter]

I have NEVER seen anyone try a BP/W properly fitted and want to go back to a jacket BC. Has anyone else?

I'll find out this spring. Pick up my BP/W tomorrow, we'll see how it compares to my SeaQuest Balance back inflate.

Not the same as a jacket, I know, but still...

 

[SanDiegoSidemount]

I'll find out this spring. Pick up my BP/W tomorrow, we'll see how it compares to my SeaQuest Balance back inflate.

Note I was careful to say "properly fitted". There are a lot of ways to rig and adjust a plate & harness, so if it doesn't feel right at first, ask questions and keep adjusting. Enjoy your new purchase!

 

[Vegan Shark]

I've joined the dark side: After researching wings all day, I finally ordered my first one There's a store in Sacramento that has a pretty decent BPW selection, so will go try out harnesses to find the most comfortable.