Considering diving, BP/W is ok?

Witch BC I should buy?


  • Total voters
    67

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Aqualung/Apeks, you get Free Parts for Life...you do NOT have to purchase everything together.

You just have to purchase from an authorized dealer.

I prefer diaphragm regulators over ScubaPro's piston stuff anyways.

I would advise the Apeks XTX50. It's what most divers in our area use, either that or the Aqualung Legend.
 
My buying would follow this rule. Is my life in its hands? If yes buy it. If no rent it. 2nd If its personal buy it if not rent it. So i would buy AFTER ow certification. A reg, computer, suit , mask, fins. Rent the rest for a while till you can make an informed decision on what you need. I am also a BP/W guy, but it is not for everyone. I agree with others that you buy one and never buy again. The computer is your data center and you need to know how to use it and not retrain every time you rent one. I use a peditor for ease of menus. The reg needless to say needs to breath well and it goes with anything. Having your own means you know that it is not a half broke rental, and haveing a reliable flow of air when needed a pluss i hear. Your suit and mask lets you lets you strap on your own fluids and not someone elses. The remaining 500 for the bcd or bp/w will be purely a preference thing. steel vs al or kidex are the only real considerations AFTER you have your other gear. steel vs al is a bouyancy matter. The exposure suit is an extreem bouyancy issue so its needs to be right for your use. If you are a cool water or cold water diver then you need to consider the eventual dry suit purchase. Another major bouyancy factor. With that said, you gain 30# or go from a 3-7mil suit or ds and you will be changing much more than that, cause the bcd will also change most likely. If you have a bp/w all you change is the strapping maybe, and probably go to a steel backplate from an al. Do it right the first time and use the savings for diving. Also i use mk25's and s-600's. It was the best at the time i felt. I am sure there are other regs that are much cheaper and will work jsut as well. Prior comments about hog ect should be considered. Dont forget about service availability, If you lds does not service your reg of choice then who will be?????
 
When I first started teaching, I read the results of an interesting experiment done at the elementary school level. Teachers were asked to participate in a study of young people's impressions of what successful adults looked like. They were given a set of pictures to show the students, and the students were to rate the people in the pictures based on the degree to which they thought they were successful. The teachers were told to say nothing that was not in the very specific script they were given. The teachers were also told ahead of time what the researchers thought the students would say about each one. It turned out the researchers were right--the results were pretty much exactly what the researchers said they would be.

The problem is that the researchers told each teacher something different, and each class conformed to what the individual teacher had been told would happen. Even though every teacher performed the study exactly the same way and even though they all said exactly the same thing, the bias of the individual teachers somehow came through to the students and strongly influenced their decisions.

I think the same thing happens in scuba equipment sales.

Here in Colorado there are very few people who dive BP/Ws. Very few shops sell them. In the shop I used to work with as an instructor, when some of us starting using them and really made a push for them, the shop started carrying them. Because they started carrying them, it was important that they actually make some sales, because it is not good to carry unsold inventory. The problem was that there was not a single person working the retail floor who had ever dived in a BP/W or even seen anyone dive in a BP/W. They only people they knew who used them were those of us who were doing tech. Unsurprisingly, they did not sell a single one while I was still there.

Then I moved to another shop and was given the task of bringing advanced recreational and technical diving to a shop that had previously had nothing but a basic warm water reef trip focus. I am still working on that transition. We now have a line of gear that includes BP/Ws. But once again, there is not a single person working the retail floor who has ever even seen a BP/W in action.

No matter how even handed and objective you may try to be when working with a customer, if you are an employee working retail, your biases will come through, and you will greatly influence the decisions of the customer. Yes, some people will mistakenly say things like, "These are for tech," but even if the employee does not say that, and even if the employee carefully follows a prepared script in explaining the advantages of the BP/W, that employee's biases will somehow come through. It will be a tough sell.
 
It probably depends on which dive boat, where they're going, and who's on it. I was just on one down there that had two different OW classes on it, on Sport Chalet class and an Eco Adventures class. So it goes witout saying BP/W rigs were pretty rare.

This seems to prove the point that the gear that shops rent (and OW students train in) is not the same stuff that the active divers in SoCal are buying and using. I think you'd see a lot more BP/W rigs on a trip without OW classes aboard. The more "advanced" the trip (i.e. overnight trips, or a trip with deep/wreck dives) the more of them you'd see. I would guess not a lot of drysuits on your boat, either.

Are there other shops down that way besides Hollywood Divers that stock and promote BP/W setups?

Further south, Beach Cities Scuba (a few locations in OC) carries a pretty complete range of Dive Rite. I've seen quite a bit of Halcyon gear at Ocean Adventures in San Diego, and House of Scuba in SD usually has some Hollis gear on display (though they don't stock a ton of BP/W stuff, most is special order.)

However, Hollywood Divers is the only SoCal dive store I'm aware of that also promotes DIR/GUE classes. So it's the only place I know that you'll see a shop promoting the instruction along with the gear. At other shops, BP/W stuff is not "promoted" in the same way, but it's available for those who know what they want. There are also lots of independent DIR/GUE instructors around.

From what I've seen, the typical SoCal progression as divers get more experienced is to upgrade to a back-inflate BC first (Zeagle is a popular brand) and then BP/W.
 
I really wish BP/W had been introduced in my OW classes. Why they use and market vest BCs makes sense since they are very simple and straightforward, and all that most divers will need when doing single tank vacation dives. But they should at least introduce what BP/W is, and give students the option of using it, for those who will get into more technical diving down the road and want to just start out that way, etc.
 
I really wish BP/W had been introduced in my OW classes. Why they use and market vest BCs makes sense since they are very simple and straightforward, and all that most divers will need when doing single tank vacation dives. But they should at least introduce what BP/W is, and give students the option of using it, for those who will get into more technical diving down the road and want to just start out that way, etc.

Yeah, I agree. If you're not astute enough as a student to take your OW course from GUE or UTD, you wouldn't even know BP/W setups exist until you get "out in the wild" to dive among experienced divers.

It's a bit of a chicken and egg problem. I've heard a number of instructors mention they don't wear them for teaching (even if they own/use them) so that their setup "looks like the student's gear". And you can't show students a BP/W setup if the dive shop you teach at doesn't stock them. So if the students don't know about it, they don't buy it, they come back for more classes in their jacket BCs, and the cycle continues.

The biggest myth of all I've seen perpetuated by dive shops is that BP/W is "technical and expensive", so it's not an option for newer divers to even consider. One look around the Dive Gear Express web site should prove you can get a quality BP/W for the same or even less than many entry level jacket BCs.
 
I think the focus of "simple and functional" is one of the reasons BPW hasn't spread as much to the mass market, though. The vest BCs by the big names like Mares, Scubapro, Sherwood, etc. all have style, flair, and individuality. Simply put, they look cool and consumers like that. A harness of bare minimum straps, uncomfortable looking plate, and blah looking black wing doesn't exactly catch the eye.

While the modality is a big advantage of BPW, it's also a turn off for new divers, speaking from personal experience. When you're just starting out it's a lot more appealing to have a simple vest rather than something that comes in parts. If more BPWs were marketed as coming fully assembled, rather than in bits and pieces, it might help.
 
I really wish BP/W had been introduced in my OW classes. Why they use and market vest BCs makes sense since they are very simple and straightforward, and all that most divers will need when doing single tank vacation dives. But they should at least introduce what BP/W is, and give students the option of using it, for those who will get into more technical diving down the road and want to just start out that way, etc.
Many dive shops are not necessarily interested in what is best for divers, they are more interested in what will make them the most money.
Poodle jackets are what the big manufacturers make and promote. They are easy for dive shops to sell because they look cool, are comfortable to try on in the store, and are easy to set up - just pick the right size. They have plenty of features that people think they need, etc.
Most dive shops are on a tier pricing schedule. the more aggregate sales of one particular companies goods they sell the better pricing they get on the overall batch of goods they buy. So why would they want to dilute their sales with a BP/W when all it's going to do is screw up their tier pricing and overall numbers. They don't care about the divers personally, they just want them to come back and spend more money. Sure, they will be friendly and helpfull but only in the area of what they sell and promote. A dive shop is a business and businesses need to make money, bottom line.
 

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