"Compressed" vs. "Crushed" Neoprene

[mproekt1]

According to DUI "...Crushed neoprene material is patented and available only from DUI..." (see the article at Drysuits made from compressed vs. crushed neoprene). I suppose everything must be call compressed. So here is the question, is DUI "crushed" neoprene really that superior to compressed neoprene by other manufacturers? In the same article the author claims that other manufacturers start with thinner neoprene thus DUI's "crushing" method is superior to "compression" method used by others.

I am in the process of selecting a drysuit and I've pretty much set my mind on neoprene as opposed to shell/membrane suit. Durability and buoyancy characteristics are the major factors in my selection. DUI's "crushed" neoprene sounds like a winner but it's pretty expensive. I just want to make sure that if I spend that much money I get truly superior product.

What am I missing?

Thank you

 

[bubbasbaitshop]

Have a scuba pro neoprene dry suit. Love it. Dove Scapa flow this summer and was quite comfortable in it. Dry suit undergarment and rock boots was about $1200.

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[lamont]

I own both a CF200 and an FLX. Unless you're really beating on your suits the FLX is likely durable enough. I like my CF200 for warmth, but the FLX is durable enough, much lighter, more 'travelable' and dives better (better trim). And buoyancy is better with a shell suit compared to most other neoprene suits (although I don't notice any swing in my CF200 at depth).

 

[mahjong]

Dui also sells a 'compressed' neoprene suit--the CNSE (SE is 'shoulder entry', not sure if it also comes in the telescoping torse front zip style). These 'compressed' neoprene suits are not as 'crushed' as are their CF200 suits, so they are a bit thicker. The CNSE would be roughly comparable to the new Scubapro compressed neoprene suits (what someone I believe was referring to above), but I believe the CNSE's are about 1.5mm while the Scubapro are 4mm. So DUI's 'crushed' neoprene is even thinner than their 1.5mm CNSE. The thicker the warmer, the more buoyant, and the more warmth and buoyancy you lose as you dive deeper. The CF200 has some insulating properties, at least more than trilaminate shell suits, but there really is nothing to compress further as you dive deeper. The CF200 suits are great--they are extremely durable and have the form-fitting feel of neoprene suits, without the buoyancy or buoyancy swings. They are pretty darn flexible, but NOT as flexible as shell suits. They are also heavier than shell suits and take longer to dry. In short, there are pluses and minuses to each kind of suit. I have a CF200SE and a TLS350 Sig Series. I like them both a great deal. In general, the TLS350 is just so comfortable and easy to dive--and also easy to carry, clean, and dry--that I end up diving it more.

According to DUI "...Crushed neoprene material is patented and available only from DUI..." (see the article at Drysuits made from compressed vs. crushed neoprene). I suppose everything must be call compressed. So here is the question, is DUI "crushed" neoprene really that superior to compressed neoprene by other manufacturers? In the same article the author claims that other manufacturers start with thinner neoprene thus DUI's "crushing" method is superior to "compression" method used by others.

I am in the process of selecting a drysuit and I've pretty much set my mind on neoprene as opposed to shell/membrane suit. Durability and buoyancy characteristics are the major factors in my selection. DUI's "crushed" neoprene sounds like a winner but it's pretty expensive. I just want to make sure that if I spend that much money I get truly superior product.

What am I missing?

Thank you

 

[mproekt1]

Thank you very much for your insightful comments. Now I have a better understanding of where "crushed" stands among other types of compressed neoprene.

I was considering CF200 because my primary criteria for dry suit are high durability, constant (or near constant) volume and increased thermal protection to reduce need for heavy undergarment. looks like CF200 hits all marks.

There is however another suit that hits all marks "Waterproof D1 Hybrid" (Waterproof D1 Hybrid Drysuit - YouTube). I'm a huge fan of waterproof. I've been using (or rather abusing) their wet suits and extremely impressed with quality of the material and construction. D1 is a trilaminate dry suit with extremely tough outer layer made of kevlar and special proprietary inner lining that increases thermal protection and eliminates air pockets for improved buoyancy control. The set of standard options makes it close to CF200SE Signature Series. Plus it comes with quick exchange ring system and set of replacement silicon seals. So price wise DUI CF200SE Signature Series with ZipSeal and replacement seals and standard D1 Hybrid come out about the same just about $3000...

My wife will kill me regardless of my choice...

 

[tbone1004]

I'd seriously consider the pinnacle black ice.
DRIS has an unbeatable price on an XL-Short if you can fit into it.
Pinnacle Black Ice Drysuit OVERSTOCK - Dive Right In Scuba - Plainfield, ILif not then the price is still really good and it's a fantastic suit. It's too warm for me, but have dove one a few times and it's fantastic.

 

[mproekt1]

fantastic is great!!!! I like fantastic!!!! And according to the size chart XL Short is my size... But what exactly does it mean? How was the buoyancy control at different depths? 4mm is a lot of neoprene even for thermocompressed? Does it compress much? How about neoprene seals?

Thank you very much for the link. It is an incredible deal.

 

[tbone1004]

I would order that suit ASAP if you're serious, no idea how long it will last, but don't lag on it. I would highly recommend spending the extra $150 and having Mike put a P-valve in it while it's already there.
I don't dive neoprene seals, it's not my thing. I guess if you are real sensitive at your neck they can help, but IMHO they are more prone to seepage, which is more of a nuisance for me.

It was nice not having to wear undergarments. I had a layer of underarmour on for easier donning, but the neoprene is warmer inherently than trilam suits. The Merino helps immensely to where I overheated in the 60* degree water. I'm really warm blooded and only wear light undergarments, so take that with a grain of salt. Build quality was top notch. I only got it down to 80, but there wasn't a lot of compression and buoyancy didn't change noticeably for me.
Watch the video mike put on there for a bit more info, he has more experience with it than I do

 

[TechDeep]

I would do a search in the exposure suit forum for waterproof D1 before I buy if I were you. In fact, that's what I did. There's a guy that posted a lot about his experiences with the D1. He likes the suit, but dives it without the inner lining. That convinced me to keep looking at other options. Just a thought ...

Thank you very much for your insightful comments. Now I have a better understanding of where "crushed" stands among other types of compressed neoprene.

I was considering CF200 because my primary criteria for dry suit are high durability, constant (or near constant) volume and increased thermal protection to reduce need for heavy undergarment. looks like CF200 hits all marks.

There is however another suit that hits all marks "Waterproof D1 Hybrid" (Waterproof D1 Hybrid Drysuit - YouTube). I'm a huge fan of waterproof. I've been using (or rather abusing) their wet suits and extremely impressed with quality of the material and construction. D1 is a trilaminate dry suit with extremely tough outer layer made of kevlar and special proprietary inner lining that increases thermal protection and eliminates air pockets for improved buoyancy control. The set of standard options makes it close to CF200SE Signature Series. Plus it comes with quick exchange ring system and set of replacement silicon seals. So price wise DUI CF200SE Signature Series with ZipSeal and replacement seals and standard D1 Hybrid come out about the same just about $3000...

My wife will kill me regardless of my choice...

 

[mproekt1]

excellent thread on D1 Hybrid http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/exposure-suits/373085-waterproof-d1-hybrid-drysuit.html

It seems that the most common complaint is restricted movement with that 3d mesh which would be the only reason for me to go with the suit. Thank you TechDeep for your advice.

saxplayer1004, I am very much intrigued by the Pinnacle Black Ice Drysuit. My only concern is neoprene seals. Not sure if I like that. But the price is amazing. I wonder if it's possible to replace seals with latex or even silicon. Will do some research.

Thank you everybody for great comments. Got to love ScubaBoard