Compressed air mid-freedive

[5ata]

Yes, please read the earlier posts in the thread.

5ata knew what he was talking about and too bad people who are less informed but more belicose have driven him back to the purely freediving boards. I wish people would do a little background research before posting egregiously bellicose nonsense. (Like that could really happen...)

~Marlinspike

:14: I came back to lurk Marlinspike - thanks for the props.. I may still participate here.. we shall see...

 

[mattroz]

Marlinspike you just said that a freediver could in fact take a breath of compressed gas from a safety diver, while 5ata still maintains that a freediver cannot take a breath of compressed gas...which is it? there has to be a wrong answer! This isn't an exclusive freedivers forum and maybe we are uninformed thats why we're asking questions to become informed. were you born with all this knowledge about freediving? no someone had to show you. so i'm sorry were not smart enough for you.

 

[5ata]

This isn't about being born with the information - it's about researching the information. If one want's to truly learn about freediving, one needs to take the necessary courses and academics regarding the subject. It would be the same as if someone wanted you to tell them how to scuba dive over a discussion forum when they already have the equipment - but no proper training. I speak this not to get into any more of a pissing match, but as someone who has taught others to freedive and having been taught, one cannot fully appreciate the information as it applies to freediving unless taught by a qualified instructor. I still have much to learn, but I know more now than I did when I first started to freedive.

So someone showed those who freedive - we learned what we learned because we made the effort to learn - Why make a statement as rude as that? Why does someone learn to scuba dive? Someone qualified instructs someone how to - respect the same thing when it comes to freediving. We can only impart so much before it becomes instructional and goes outside the boundaries of just general information. I am still learning about freediving, just like others who practice the sport.

Just as there are updates to a scuba instructors manual, so are the same things for freediving - based upon the current information I have, breathing gas at that depth wasn't an option for Audrey. If there is something new in research I haven't come across, I am more than willing to review it and alter my position if needed.

As I stated earlier, Obtain a copy of Umberto's book, take a course through PFI, AIDA or Apnea Academy - it will give you the information needed to answer these types of questions - and in the process, it makes for a better scuba diver.

 

[freediver]

This isn't about being born with the information - it's about researching the information. If one want's to truly learn about freediving, one needs to take the necessary courses and academics regarding the subject. It would be the same as if someone wanted you to tell them how to scuba dive over a discussion forum when they already have the equipment - but no proper training. I speak this not to get into any more of a pissing match, but as someone who has taught others to freedive and having been taught, one cannot fully appreciate the information as it applies to freediving unless taught by a qualified instructor. I still have much to learn, but I know more now than I did when I first started to freedive.

So someone showed those who freedive - we learned what we learned because we made the effort to learn - Why make a statement as rude as that? Why does someone learn to scuba dive? Someone qualified instructs someone how to - respect the same thing when it comes to freediving. We can only impart so much before it becomes instructional and goes outside the boundaries of just general information. I am still learning about freediving, just like others who practice the sport.

Just as there are updates to a scuba instructors manual, so are the same things for freediving - based upon the current information I have, breathing gas at that depth wasn't an option for Audrey. If there is something new in research I haven't come across, I am more than willing to review it and alter my position if needed.

As I stated earlier, Obtain a copy of Umberto's book, take a course through PFI, AIDA or Apnea Academy - it will give you the information needed to answer these types of questions - and in the process, it makes for a better scuba diver.

Hey Cliff, I certainly agree that freedive training will enhance the scuba diver's skills and experience!
On a note somewhat related to the thread, do you recall when Pipin did his notorious double breath dives? Any idea where specific info on these may be viewed by some of these guys looking for answers? If I recall correctly, he suffered a pretty good DCS hit?

 

[5ata]

Pipin has suffered more than one hit from my understanding, and I have it on VERY good authority (read - former GM of IAFD is a good friend of mine) that Pipin use to do VERy unsafe things like descend on air to over 200 feet - then ascend without taking a deco safety stop.

Info is pretty much gone - IAFD no longer exists and any info is pretty much deleted. Might try the internets wayback machine to find archives of the sites... My understanding is, Pipin is doing boat repairs and selling fish he shoots in Miami... But I can't say that is for certain...

 

[Thalassamania]

No exchange of gases - no increase in nitrogen absorption.
There are recorded instances of DCS with freedivers ... who make numerous ascents and descents without giving sufficient time at the surface to off gas the little they have in their systems. They gradually build up nitorgen in their systems and eventually get bent...

I'm sorry, I've stayed out of this up till now, but I must point out that you can't have it both ways.

 

[Marlinspike]

Marlinspike you just said that a freediver could in fact take a breath of compressed gas from a safety diver, while 5ata still maintains that a freediver cannot take a breath of compressed gas...which is it? there has to be a wrong answer! This isn't an exclusive freedivers forum and maybe we are uninformed thats why we're asking questions to become informed. were you born with all this knowledge about freediving? no someone had to show you. so i'm sorry were not smart enough for you.

In theory it is possible, but in reality this is not usually the case. I guess I wasnt clear in my earlier post, which you quoted, where I was speaking purely in "It COULD happen" hypothetical terms. I dont know of any freediver actually ever being able to do this during an extreme freedive. If anyone finds any case of this please post it here.

At that depth and after the amount of time you have been holding your breath, your body will likely not want you to breath, almost as if knowing at the subconcious level that you are in water and should not breath. If you listen to world record freedivers in interviews they will often talk about how their bodies want to breath only tentativly at first after getting to the surface, before they can start taking full breaths, with their bodies almost wanting to make sure they are in air before breathing. There is a lot we dont know about the mamalian effect and what the body is doing at those depths. Everyone's body is different.

The role of safety divers is usually limited by what they can do. You cant make someone breath and you can't breath for someone else underwater. A good friend who lost their best friend and dive buddy on lake Huron during a tech dive to 300 ft told me that once. It has stuck with me. In the case of safety divers on world record freedives, unfortunatly the reality is that all they will likely be able to do is pass an impaired freediver from one to the next until they are at the surface and can receive CPR and 02.

~Marlinspike

 

[Dibblerr]

<SNIP>
I am still learning about freediving, just like others who practice the sport.

Just as there are updates to a scuba instructors manual, so are the same things for freediving - based upon the current information I have, breathing gas at that depth wasn't an option for Audrey. If there is something new in research I haven't come across, I am more than willing to review it and alter my position if needed.
<SNIP

I read this thread with interest and the original issue was 'why' couldnt gas be given.
I read the thread and it sounded pretty plausible . Now the thread started off with what was supposedly 'fact', when called on these facts as they clash with fundamental physics/physiology the story took a different path and now becomes 'I am still learning' Everyone is learning but just like many Armchair scuba divers when you give 'dubious information' you will get called on it.

 

[Marlinspike]

I read this thread with interest and the original issue was 'why' couldnt gas be given.
I read the thread and it sounded pretty plausible . Now the thread started off with what was supposedly 'fact', when called on these facts as they clash with fundamental physics/physiology the story took a different path and now becomes 'I am still learning' Everyone is learning but just like many Armchair scuba divers when you give 'dubious information' you will get called on it.

Dude if you want FACTS, the internet is GREAT place to go!

~Marlinspike

 

[5ata]

The is a laryngospasm that takes place once the freediver blacks out that closes off the airway - it is a physiological response to prevent water from entering the lungs - Audry had actually tried to make her way up to the second safety diver - she had refused air from the bottom one, but she blacked out on her attempt to ascend and once that happend, there was no way to give her air due to the closing off of her airway. I had to go back through my notes from when it occurred and see what I had written along with my physiology information related to freediving. Bottom line - she blacked out and could not have been given air.

In addition, her lungs were filled with plasma as stated before due to MDR - combine the elements of her dive - she was dead once she blacked out.

Arm chair scuba divers can debate this until blue from hypoxia, the reality is, unless you freedive and experience the actual physiological sensations that occur, you are speculating without experience.