"Complete Wreck Diving" (manifold vs independent)

[Thalassamania]

It is good to hear that there is a DIR sidemount. That article explains enough to solve all recent debate.


Who said that,,,,? George says so....

Just the same we'll laugh at you and you'll look like a dork.

 

[Hoosier]

Just the same we'll laugh at you and you'll look like a dork.

Just take it easy. It is all about a fun and sharing the knowledge and information. Nothing more or less.

I try to pick up an idea that fits to my needs. I don't care where that idea is from....

BTW, you are the member of pre-AAUS. I respect it...

 

[Soggy]

As long as we're quoting George, Turner was Gavin's buddy on this dive:

Imagine what was going through the mind of an 18 year veteran cave diver diving in a place he knew like his own house. He came back to the restriction. For 45 minutes they tried to find a way out, tying in their spools to where the line was buried and searching forward. Gavin told me they were down to almost no gas, and he knew they were going to die. He said he did not want to see Parker die so he moved over to die by himself.

http://www.direxplorers.com/trip-reports/1347-my-77th-cave-dive.html

That story gives me the chills every time.

Were you just sharing the dive report or did you have a point to make from it?

 

[Thalassamania]

Just take it easy. It is all about a fun and sharing the knowledge and information. Nothing more or less.

I try to pick up an idea that fits to my needs. I don't care where that idea is from....

BTW, you are the member of pre-AAUS. I respect it...

Sorry I thought everyone was reading this thread, it’s a riot: we'll laugh at you and you'll look like a dork.

 

[b1gcountry]

Well, to throw my own two cents in:
Independents increase the task loading during the dive. Having to switch regs to breathe down the tanks equally is an added task. The more equally you breathe the tanks the better (to a point). It also adds the diver error of not breathing down the tanks equally. You meant to switch at 2000, you breathed the tank down to 1500, and your second tank went as soon as you switched to it, so now you have lost 2/3 of your gas instead of even half.

It also makes donating a reg harder because you will switching between two regs, and (probably) clipping the non-used one in the same place, the hoses can get tangled up. It's just another skill to learn, and figure out, but again, more task loading.

I'm not saying independents are horrible, but I consider them more prone to diver error, which, lets be honest, is probably the most common cause of accidents.

One of the biggest benefits of Independents is that they are more versatile, and you can take them apart, and not have to carry the two tanks together back to your car...has anyone else ever noticed that carrying two tanks in either hand is a lot lighter than carrying the same two tanks manifolded together? No? Is it just me?

Tom

 

[daniel f aleman]

That story gives me the chills every time.

Were you just sharing the dive report or did you have a point to make from it?

We're allowing ourselves to get distracted by the manifold debate in and of itself. It's about NOT having enough gas... even the best divers can find themselves in such a way.

 

[Hoosier]

Sorry I thought everyone was reading this thread, it’s a riot: we'll laugh at you and you'll look like a dork.

Oops!! Now I got what you said...

 

[Kevrumbo]

We're allowing ourselves to get distracted by the manifold debate in and of itself. It's about NOT having enough gas... even the best divers can find themselves in such a way.

That's why in serious Wreck Penetrations, I always dive with a three-man (manifolded) Team, each with one-thirds and minimum gas reserve planning: In a worst case scenario at the furthest point of penetration, I know I can count on an Emergency Gas Supply from one teammate, AND a back-up Redundant Supply from the other teammate for a gas sharing egress. . .

 

[Mike Edmonston]

Sidemount has a place in a very specific environment. I do not dive in areas where sidemount is required, so there is no reason for anyone diving with me to use sidemount.

Sorry Soggy, wrong again. Sidemount is not only used in cave diving. I use it extensively when filming in open water. It gives me a better platform for shooting HD, and keeping smoother zooms and pans. I can deploy my hose just as fast as you can. The time it takes you to pull it off your neck, is about the same it takes me to unclip mine, or even just hand you the reg that I'm using at the time. Hell, if we're in a bad tight situation in a wreck (such as a submarine) I can unclip a tank and just give it to you. you gonna unclip your doubles? You prefer to dive doubles, and I respect that. Nothing wrong with that at all. But independants or sidemount do not increase task loading. It's the same as going for the lanyard backup! And just like anything else, if you dive sidemount long enough, the reg positions become second nature.

I wouldn't have a problem diving with you on your doubles rig, but you won't dive with me on sidemount?

Don't hate me cause I'm different...

Anyway, let's all go diving.

Cheers.

Mike

 

[JimC]

My biggest problem is that any failure causes you to lose access to half
your gas. I see that as a huge problem.

Again (since it gets ignored every time I say it) this is NOT TRUE.

A dead regulator does not mean you loose 1/2 your gas. Its farm animal easy to throw a stage or buddies regulator on, in place of the dead reg. Many sidemount divers have an h-valve on one post with a third regulator for just this reason. Its even possible to do a switch on a breath hold - mind you, with 300bar DIN... its not much fun.

Simple? No.. but available in the remote case where you would ever need to do this. With proper gas management, you can get out on 1 tank barring further significant failures.