complacent divers

[MechDiver]

Dr. Jay once bubbled...

I agree with MechDiver, as usual

Thank you. Most folks here do, they just argue with me because they're bored :bonk:

MD

 

[djhall]

Aren't most people as good a diver as they are willing to put forth the effort to be? I think the vast majority of divers are perfectly content to be underwater tourists while sucking on a reg and following a DM. Navigation? Who needs it? Just follow the DM (heck, he'll follow you since he is paid to not loose you). Dive planning? Who needs it? The DM tells you where to go and for how long. Fine bouyancy control? Why? I see the fish just fine, and I occasionally like to take a rest and sit on the reef. While many of these people may have had poor instruction, I suspect they received the level of training they really wanted: whatever gave them the most fun with the least work. Books, advanced classes, P.P. Bouyancy, and practice are all out there for anyone who desires to partake of them. But the person who is only motivated to dive one weekend a year while on vacation is not going to be practicing their skills and working on refining their technique.

 

[roakey]

Dr. Jay once bubbled...
Hmmmm.....proficiency. I guess I can do the skill (i.e. - mask removing, buddy breathing, fin-pivot/hover).

We’ve beaten the fin pivot to death in previous notes. Basically if you can do a fin pivot you’re trimmed all wrong. Most probably your instructor doesn’t know this, because even with 15+ years of experience divers fall into two basic categories:

Those that have done thousands of dives, and

Those that have done one dive thousands of times.

Most instructors fall into the latter category.

See: http://www.scubaboard.com/t11998/s.html

Page 2 is where the fin pivot question is asked, page 3 it’s answered and the fun begins. And that’s just one note that touched on fin pivots.

[added]: Another great thread: http://www.scubaboard.com/t8232/s.html

Roak

 

[MikeFerrara]

Dr. Jay once bubbled...
Mike,
As to what skills I had to demonstrate proficiently, click here.
My instructor has been teaching for 15+ years. Hopefully this won't turn into a credentials debate.

Hmmmm.....proficiency. I guess I can do the skill (i.e. - mask removing, buddy breathing, fin-pivot/hover). It may not be perfect but then again, I'm sure no one can do it perfectly. It gives me something to build on.

I digress back to what I previously posted. Practice helps! I work on buoyancy skills every time I hit the water. I don't see how you can't (wait a minute, I take that back ). I don't get to dive as much as I'd like to, but as usil said, I'm always learning.


I agree with MechDiver, as usual

I wasn't asking what skills you demonstrated. I know what's in the manual. I was asking for a description of proficiency.

Did you address trim? How many times did you remove and replace your mask? Did you do all skills while kneeling on the bottom?

I'm not trying to say your class was poor because I wasn't there but would you know if it was?

 

[Pappy]

If I was a new or perspective diver and based the sport on the attitudes and egos of some of you people, I would run away screaming.
You're painting with an awfully broad brush.
As for PADI versus SSI. I hold both cards and while I preferred SSI's training method, I dive with people from both schools and I do not hesitate to entrust my life to them under water.
I also know people from both schools who I would not trust in a kiddie pool.
I guess I missed the part of the instruction where you were given the certificate that made you the keeper of all scuba knowledge.

 

[usil]

But when I see people banging off the bottom, smacking coral with fin tips and equipment, assembling gear in unsafe manners, not really caring about other divers, I get a little pissed.

IMO its because they only do it two three times a year and don't really care as long as they are happy with what they want.

Love the sport, do the sport or get out!!

 

[Dr. Jay]

First of all, I doubt there are any poorly motivated coral killers on this board. They probably don't have enough time to argue with the experts here, and could really care less.

So...this is going to turn into a credentials debate. I'm not in.

I guess anyway you put it, PADI sucks, and they all know nothing. I shouldn't bother learning new skills, since the ones I learned in the first place are useless. Scuba diving is only for people who have been diving for a long time.

Am I missing something here???

 

[djhall]

usil once bubbled...
But when I see people banging off the bottom, smacking coral with fin tips and equipment, assembling gear in unsafe manners, not really caring about other divers, I get a little pissed.

IMO its because they only do it two three times a year and don't really care as long as they are happy with what they want.

Love the sport, do the sport or get out!!

Yeah, well, we live in the real world where this just doesn't work. If you aren't a serious cyclist, don't ride a bike to the park? If you aren't a serious snowskiier, stay off the slopes? If you aren't a professionally trained driver, stay off the road? Become a technical guru, or stay off the computer?

We live in a world in which most of us are only barely proficient at the majority of the things we do. We dive, drive, snow ski, cycle, ride motorcycles, water ski, take pictures, use computers, operate machinery, and all sorts of activities in which we only know just enough to get by. We typically have a few activities in which we attempt to achieve some level of depth and mastery, and for most of us on this board scuba falls into that category. Of course we are going to look down at those who take the path of least resistance, but I don't think many of us can claim to never do the same in some other sport or activity.

The best we can do, IMHO, is try to educate them to avoid damaging dive sites and then stay away from those with no desire to learn or improve so we do not have to rescue them if they get in trouble.

 

[Pappy]

Unfortuanately, most of us who are always learning and do not have the mistaken idea that we are "experts" are continually running into egotistical know-it-all's at dive sites and in the dives shops.
At least now, instead of calling them A#s H*%es, we can call them by their real names. The only proplem will be to figure out which of them to call " Dr. Jay" and which ones to call " Usil".
As much as I would like to stay and listen the their drivel, I think Iit will be more exciting and educational to watch the avacado dip turn black.

 

[Dr. Jay]

Pappy,

What makes you think I'm a "know-it-all"? I'm definately not an expert. I have yet to criticize anyone's courses or instructional methods (except for sarcasm).

Maybe it was misinterpreted? 2 posts ago I said I was always learning.