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Cold Water Regulator Search
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Caveeagle
Contributor
I have not dove Apeks, but they are very similar to HOG D1 and and some Dive Rite, and Hollis regs. This is a proven design used by several brands. Apeks is the 'original' and seem to be much more popular in Europe.
I tend to agree with point about getting environmentally sealed 1st stages. Also, make sure you get safety-2nds that match your primaries. That way you can always compare performace to better take notice of a potential issue.
If you are still considering ScubaPro, I would make sure you have a local shop that you are comfortable with. In most cases, the initial cost of regs is only part of the consideration. Service from a shop you like and trust is important. I have nothing bad to say about SP, the just would not be a good option for me because I like to work on my own gear. They tend to have proprietary parts/tools that are hard to source, and the SP shop near me is just not someplace I frequent. You can always mail/ship off your regs for service, but that won't help if an issue pops up just before you head out on a trip.
I tend to agree with point about getting environmentally sealed 1st stages. Also, make sure you get safety-2nds that match your primaries. That way you can always compare performace to better take notice of a potential issue.
If you are still considering ScubaPro, I would make sure you have a local shop that you are comfortable with. In most cases, the initial cost of regs is only part of the consideration. Service from a shop you like and trust is important. I have nothing bad to say about SP, the just would not be a good option for me because I like to work on my own gear. They tend to have proprietary parts/tools that are hard to source, and the SP shop near me is just not someplace I frequent. You can always mail/ship off your regs for service, but that won't help if an issue pops up just before you head out on a trip.
The regs you are looking at and the ones that others have recommended will work fine for you but as someone else mentioned look for local support for the brand you chose. I dove the Aqualung Legend for several years and it works great but about a year ago I switched to an Apeks XTX50 and I like it better and it was half the cost.
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I would never look at the Scubapro brand for cold water diving. They are experts in piston regulators, so why anyone would buy the MK17 when for the same amount of money you can purchase a diaphragm that is just as good if not better from a company that specializes in diaphragm regulators is beyond me.
Now, you don't have to spend insane amounts of money on regulators, and there are lots of other questions you need to answer before we can even begin to make a recommendation.
You want the actual gold standard for true cold water diving? You have two options, Poseidon, then Apeks. That's it. There are drawbacks to both, and the main one for Apeks is regulators like the Dive Rite XT are half the price, and perform just as well.
Now the questions.
Do you now or do you plan to own your own tanks?
How much travel to tropical destinations do you anticipate?
How religious are you with proper gear rinsing before the regs are allowed to dry out?
Do you see yourself diving doubles, sidemount, or with a pony bottle in the future? Pony bottles and doubles are not uncommon in the PNW due to the depths.
Do you have any interest in servicing your own equipment to save insane amounts of money over the course of your diving career?
Answer those first, then we can actually give you a better recommendation.
Even without those questions answered, the set listed below is the best bang for buck option. Cold water compatible, comes with all of the gear you need for diving single tank with a pony bottle, sidemount, or backmount *just call and get the right size hoses*, at $700 is a great deal, has good support globally for service, but can also be easily serviced at home.
Cave Adventurers - Dive Rite XT Sidemount Regulator Package - Marianna, Florida USA - Never Undersold!
Now, you don't have to spend insane amounts of money on regulators, and there are lots of other questions you need to answer before we can even begin to make a recommendation.
You want the actual gold standard for true cold water diving? You have two options, Poseidon, then Apeks. That's it. There are drawbacks to both, and the main one for Apeks is regulators like the Dive Rite XT are half the price, and perform just as well.
Now the questions.
Do you now or do you plan to own your own tanks?
How much travel to tropical destinations do you anticipate?
How religious are you with proper gear rinsing before the regs are allowed to dry out?
Do you see yourself diving doubles, sidemount, or with a pony bottle in the future? Pony bottles and doubles are not uncommon in the PNW due to the depths.
Do you have any interest in servicing your own equipment to save insane amounts of money over the course of your diving career?
Answer those first, then we can actually give you a better recommendation.
Even without those questions answered, the set listed below is the best bang for buck option. Cold water compatible, comes with all of the gear you need for diving single tank with a pony bottle, sidemount, or backmount *just call and get the right size hoses*, at $700 is a great deal, has good support globally for service, but can also be easily serviced at home.
Cave Adventurers - Dive Rite XT Sidemount Regulator Package - Marianna, Florida USA - Never Undersold!
Tec diving in the US Northeast and UK is mostly cold water diving in rough conditions. Any Apeks model from DS4 to FSR first stages with XTX 50 to XTX 200 second stages will do the job nicely. Get on a boat with Tec divers in cold or warm waters in the US, EU or Asia, you'll see Apeks or SP regs but mostly Apeks. There's a good reason for this.
runsongas
Contributor
other than apeks and the apeks clones made in taiwan (dive rite/hog), zeagle also makes dry sealed diaphragm regs.
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Hi tbone 1004,
Who is the OEM for the Dive Rite regulators, the Hog regulators? This is part of the unknown story for the majority of divers. In fact, the majority are unaware of the OEM story for the majority of scuba gear. With exceptions, many, most brands do not manufacture their own equipment. The computer story with PPS is particularly interesting and poorly disseminated. Nobody wants folks to know that their equipment is essentially just rebranded. Just like with pharmaceuticals, perhaps their is a premium for the innovator. Why would advancements be developed and delivered if there was no reward in it?
If divers just want the cheapest, that's exactly what they will get
Good diving, Craig
Who is the OEM for the Dive Rite regulators, the Hog regulators? This is part of the unknown story for the majority of divers. In fact, the majority are unaware of the OEM story for the majority of scuba gear. With exceptions, many, most brands do not manufacture their own equipment. The computer story with PPS is particularly interesting and poorly disseminated. Nobody wants folks to know that their equipment is essentially just rebranded. Just like with pharmaceuticals, perhaps their is a premium for the innovator. Why would advancements be developed and delivered if there was no reward in it?
If divers just want the cheapest, that's exactly what they will get
Good diving, Craig
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HOG/Hollis/Deep6 and a few others use ODS for their OEM. Dive Rite used to until the release of the XT. Dive Rite went with the "other" OEM in Taiwan for their current regulators. Each brand has differences in their regulators though they are based on the same basic design. CNC machines are CNC machines, and as long as the raw material, tolerances, and QAQC are followed, it doesn't matter if ODS machines them in Taiwan, Atomic in California, or Apeks in England. They are all capable of being just as good. Some allow some of those variables to slide and we see issues from time to time, but as a whole, there is nothing about a Hollis regulator that looks exactly like say a HOG D1 that makes it worth 2x the price, they're the same regulator. Buy the cheaper one and you're good to go.
Scubapro, TUSA *though they make the MK17 for Scubapro btw*, Apeks, Atomic, Poseidon, and a few others all produce their own regulators. This does NOT make them any superior to other brands. Unfortunately these companies are all very stingy on parts kits which is why you see very few of them in technical diving in the US since we are unable to perform our own maintenance. You do not always see the brands listed above on the most extreme diving being done, especially in the US, and in fact it is fairly rare to actually see these being used by technical divers unless they are sponsored by one of the companies. This is primarily due to parts availability, nothing to do with breathing performance, quality etc. The simple fact is nothing but a computer can tell a difference between a HOG D1/Classic second stage being sold for $200, vs. an Apeks ATX50/DST being sold for more than twice as much. They breathe just as well, built just as well *the HOG actually uses a better chrome than the Apeks*, have free availability of parts for service, and are half the price. It's a no brainer.
Scubapro, TUSA *though they make the MK17 for Scubapro btw*, Apeks, Atomic, Poseidon, and a few others all produce their own regulators. This does NOT make them any superior to other brands. Unfortunately these companies are all very stingy on parts kits which is why you see very few of them in technical diving in the US since we are unable to perform our own maintenance. You do not always see the brands listed above on the most extreme diving being done, especially in the US, and in fact it is fairly rare to actually see these being used by technical divers unless they are sponsored by one of the companies. This is primarily due to parts availability, nothing to do with breathing performance, quality etc. The simple fact is nothing but a computer can tell a difference between a HOG D1/Classic second stage being sold for $200, vs. an Apeks ATX50/DST being sold for more than twice as much. They breathe just as well, built just as well *the HOG actually uses a better chrome than the Apeks*, have free availability of parts for service, and are half the price. It's a no brainer.
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So what's the motivation to be the innovator, the improver, if all that's going to happen is that your design is going to be copied and mass produced by a small number of OEM and sold under a whole variety of brand names? Of course, most consumers are completely unaware of this and will pay a premium for their favorite brand, regardless of its generic background. The Aqua Lung computers, manufactured by PPS, appear to be a very good example of this, not an original aspect to any of their offerings, old stuff from Oceanic and Aeris, but without some features, like dual algorithm.
If QA and tolerances are maintained, the offerings should be just fine. Anecdotal reporting is that this is not always the case and that specs may be relaxed to lower costs, who knows. Generic drugs, from the least costly sources, have been documented to have contaminates from manufacturing as well as decreased potency of the parent drug, all in the name of saving money. Greed is a powerful motivator, on both sides of the purchasing scheme.
Stay skeptical, know what you are buying and know what you are getting. I'm not saying most products are not acceptable, but the trend for continuing lower costs is dismaying. Ultimately, perhaps, you get what you pay for, in quality, in innovation for the future.
If QA and tolerances are maintained, the offerings should be just fine. Anecdotal reporting is that this is not always the case and that specs may be relaxed to lower costs, who knows. Generic drugs, from the least costly sources, have been documented to have contaminates from manufacturing as well as decreased potency of the parent drug, all in the name of saving money. Greed is a powerful motivator, on both sides of the purchasing scheme.
Stay skeptical, know what you are buying and know what you are getting. I'm not saying most products are not acceptable, but the trend for continuing lower costs is dismaying. Ultimately, perhaps, you get what you pay for, in quality, in innovation for the future.
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because you are operating under the premise that the Asian companies are able to do it cheaper, and that isn't necessarily the case. For regulators we are at a limit of how good they can get. The pricing difference is literally due to the cost of the traditional dealer model being horrifically expensive for the companies to operate under. The Apeks ATX50/DST is what ODS knocked off many many years ago. Apeks has made their money off of that regulator, but Aqualung chooses to continue to market it at a very high price because they have to cover overhead that companies like HOG and Deep6 just don't have.
Aqualung is not a good example because they bought the company and the products associated with it. They have never made their own computers, they partnered with Suunto. No problem, but none of these companies are doing anything like OSTC, Seabear, Shearwater etc who are actually innovating and the Asians are not knocking them off.
Aqualung is not a good example because they bought the company and the products associated with it. They have never made their own computers, they partnered with Suunto. No problem, but none of these companies are doing anything like OSTC, Seabear, Shearwater etc who are actually innovating and the Asians are not knocking them off.
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