children under 15 and nitrox

[MikeFerrara]

Until someone is 15, they are limited to 40'

Absolutely not true.

The PADI standards limit a diver 10 or 11 to 40 ft but for a Jr. diver 12 and up there is no such limitation.

In fact a 12 yr old may take the AOW class and be certified as Jr AOW. In this case the maximum depth permitted for the AOW deep dive is 70 ft

IANTD permits Jr nitrox certification of 12 yr olds. I don't know if 12 is too young or not but if the can dive at 12 they may as well have nitrox at 60 or 70 ft.

 

[DandyDon]

*****************************************************************does not help Starfire to explain to his son why he cannot or shouldnot dive Nitrox

Hello...?! Do I know you...?

I take it my response was not up to your expectaions?

I did say

The Big Dawgs may correct me here...

So, give her the better answer... :10:

 

[starfire]

I appriciate all of your imputs. Just for further information my son currently holds a padi Jr. rescue diver status. He has 40 dives with specialties in photo. and drysuit. He also practices his skills with me in the pool on the weekends we are not diving. I agree that at 13 the math and science would be difficult. Mike is correct depth guidelines for padi for Jr. divers with AOW is 70ft. Again all of your imputs have been helpful. Safe diving.

 

[toni_al]

Hello...?! Do I know you...?

I take it my response was not up to your expectaions?

I did say

So, give her the better answer... :10:

Firstly received following mail

Originally Posted by reefraff
This post was edited to remove an inappropriately rude comment.

http://www.scubaboard.com/showpost....347&postcount=4

Take is easy on the inflamatory stuff. It's not helpful and disrupts the peace.

to which I answered

Noted and apology to DandyDon, no hard feelings, had a terrible day at work that day!

Reefraff, thanks for moderating

Now to Nitrox,

many years ago there was a song in the hit parade with following lyrics by Bernadette Peters and our science teacher used ithis song as an example of the dangers of pure oxygen regarding burning and chemical reactions compared to air.

So lets sing

Anything you could do, I could do better
I can do anything better than you!
No you can't!
Yes I can!
No you can't!
Yes I can!
No you can't!
Yes I can!
Yes I can!

Anything you can be, I can be greater
Sooner or later I'm greater than you!
No you're not!
Yes I am!
No you're not!
Yes I am!
No you're not!
Yes I am!
Yes I am!

I can shoot a partridge
with a single cartridge
I can get a sparrow
With a bow and arrow
I can do most anything!
Can you bake a pie?
No!!
Neither Can I!

Any thing you can sing, I can sing Louder
I can sing anythin louder than you!
No you can't!
Yes I can!
No you can't!
Yes I can!
No you can't!
Yes I can!
No you can't!
Yes I can!
Yes I can!
Yes I can!
Yeess I Caaaaaaaaaaaaaaann!

and what has that got do do with nitrox

I can explode when I come in contact with oil,
no you can't
yes I can with a big bang
etc. etc

I can toxyfy and kill
no you can't
yes I can very quickly without warning
etc etc

not only the danger of explosions or fires due to impurities in regulator, a fire could be caused by opening the cylinder valve too fast and the first stage regulator is rapidly pressurized. This creates adiabatic compression, and can result in the sudden generation of heat inside the first stage valve, or inside the pressure gauge fitting.

Nitrox requires its own Oxygen compatible regulators all super clean and once this is connected to standard compressed air by mistake - it needs speciality cleaning no Nitrox

Then Nitrox is not Nitrox - i.e 32% or 36% each with its maximum depth of 40 and 30, and to the question of oxygen toxity and PO2 - On nitrox, the risk of an acute O2 attack may be the same or higher than the risk from nitrogen narcosis at certain depths. Remember thatreduced nitrogen narcosis is one of the benefits. The major problem with oxygen is that you may get little or no warning of an attack and your chances of surviving one are remote.

Then remember Oxygen toxicity; oxygen poisoning the human body. There are two types of oxygen toxicity; central nervous system (CNS) toxicity and pulmonary toxicity. CNS toxicity is caused by short term exposure to high oxygen partial pressures and can result in convulsions. Pulmonary toxicity is caused by longer term exposures (multiple dives) to moderate oxygen partial pressures and leads to pulmonary problems.

Starfire, I would simply explain all above and other facts and then add, because of all the added dangers, complications and responsibility to yourself and others diving with Nitrox has an age limit just as driving motor cars has an age limit

So, give her the better answer... :10:

Sorry for being so verbose, but i accepted the challange

 

[DandyDon]

Sorry for being so verbose, but i accepted the challange

Interesting...

 

[gj62]

not only the danger of explosions or fires due to impurities in regulator, a fire could be caused by opening the cylinder valve too fast and the first stage regulator is rapidly pressurized. This creates adiabatic compression, and can result in the sudden generation of heat inside the first stage valve, or inside the pressure gauge fitting.

Nitrox requires its own Oxygen compatible regulators all super clean and once this is connected to standard compressed air by mistake - it needs speciality cleaning no Nitrox

I'm not recommending for or against the age limit. However, the issues you raise above have a small chance of occuring in recreational Nitrox (<40%) - even within a titanium reg. Rec Nitrox certainly does not require super-clean regs, BTW.

The medical hazards are real, but no less understandable than what you have to learn in OW.

 

[MikeFerrara]

not only the danger of explosions or fires due to impurities in regulator, a fire could be caused by opening the cylinder valve too fast and the first stage regulator is rapidly pressurized. This creates adiabatic compression, and can result in the sudden generation of heat inside the first stage valve, or inside the pressure gauge fitting.

With O2, the issue with opening a valve too fast has more to do with the risk of particle impingment that adiabatic heating but not to worry about such things with recreational mixes.

Nitrox requires its own Oxygen compatible regulators all super clean and once this is connected to standard compressed air by mistake - it needs speciality cleaning no Nitrox

Again a non-issue with recreational mixes below 40% or so.

Then Nitrox is not Nitrox - i.e 32% or 36% each with its maximum depth of 40 and 30, and to the question of oxygen toxity and PO2 - On nitrox, the risk of an acute O2 attack may be the same or higher than the risk from nitrogen narcosis at certain depths. Remember thatreduced nitrogen narcosis is one of the benefits. The major problem with oxygen is that you may get little or no warning of an attack and your chances of surviving one are remote.

Current thinking is that O2 is as narcotic as nitrogen so...no help there. The reason for using nitrox isn't to avoid narcosis it's to reduce nitrogen loading. When diving within the MOD of the mix that's being used the risk of oxtox is virtually nil.

 

[gj62]

Hey Mike, careful there - I think we agreed on an entire post...:grin:

 

[MikeFerrara]

Hey Mike, careful there - I think we agreed on an entire post...:grin:

LOL, stranger things have happened.

 

[Father]

Thread rez...

Wondering if there has been any recent data on higher O2 effects on divers <18 y/o
There was only one post that really touched on why a younger diver shouldn't dive enriched air. Has there been any new information to support or refute the effects of either increase N2 or O2 in "pediatric divers"?

There is a lot to pediatric diving that is NOT understood yet. How increased N2 affects bone growth is one, and the pulmonary effects of oxygen over 1.0 ata is another. While we can make some inferences as to what may or may not happen, hyperbaric physiology is seldom predictable, and even less so when we are trying to determine long term effects on growing tissues.