children under 15 and nitrox

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starfire

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My son is 13 years old and a diver. I have attempted to locate information why children under 15 are not allowed to be trained on nitrox. With all I have read about nitrox it would seem to be beneficial. Any imput would be appreciated.
 
Howdy, and welcome to SB! You are welcome to post an Intro in that forum, if you'd like...

The Big Dawgs may correct me here, but I'd suggest:

(1) A 13 year old doesn't need to be diving deep enough that the Nitrox would be very helpful. I dive Nitrox to extend my bottom time below 60 feet, and that's too late for a youngster.

(2) Nitrox has its dangers, and misunderstanding the plans can lead to more dangers. A bit much for the average 13 year old. Yours may be brilliant, but rules are built for the average.

That said, you are the kiddo's guardian. If you want to furnish him with Nitrox under your care, it's against the rules, but I doubt anything will come of it.
 
hi starfire, and welcome aboard. this topic has been covered on and off on the board
for a while. you could do a search (for example "children nitrox") and come up with
quite a few threads on subject. here is one such (brief) thread:

http://scubaboard.com/t10577.html

there's basically two thougths:

1. since children under 16 are restricted to 40 feet max, diving nitrox is
really unecessary, as air gives quite a long stay at that depth; and

2. no one really knows the effect of higher concentrations of O2 on children; better
safe than sorry.

again, welcome aboard!
 
DandyDon:
but I'd suggest:

(1) A 13 year old doesn't need to be diving deep enough ..... and that's too late for a youngster.

(2) ... A bit much for the average 13 year old.



**************************************************does not help Starfire to explain to his son why he cannot or shouldnot dive Nitrox
 
sorry for saying this but a 13 year old cannot dive nitrox cos the course you have to be 15 in padi, 15 in BSAC, 15 in SAA, 15 in TDI and 15 in IANTD, i inquired about it about a couple of days ago as i am 14 for my 15th birthday present, you cannot do it till 15 and about the, 'a 13 year old shouldn't be going deep enough to use nitrox' you don't use nitrox deep!!! no you have a limit for how deep you can go and a 13 year old would be well within those limits so if you went out and dived nitrox and he did (which he couldn't as he isn't old enough) he owuld be better off than you safety wise, but i can see why they leave it to 15, come on, before you start arguments over the internet about them at least understand a bit what your going on aobut
 
Well, let's give him a break. After all he is only 14 years old.... A long way to being mature....
And anyway - one thing is true - as far as I was taught - nitrox is not for deep dives.
Anyway I can't even imagine 15 years old diving nitrox, after all it is dangerous if miscalculated.
Mania
 
Oh dear, lets not fight team!

Starfire: I agree with your own question - why SHOULDN'T a junior diver be allowed to use Nitrox?? Yes, Nitrox is most beneficial in shallower water where entry level divers are meant to be anyway. Even if you're within your air table or computer limits, Nitrox will always be safer from an inspired nitrogen point of view as you're going to ingass less of it. This leaves you with a reduced chance of having a bend (all other factors excluded for the moment), less silent bubbles, less post dive fatigue, and in the case of children less chance of any assymptomatic decompression illness causing any long bone stunting and long term injury.

Yes, there's an increased risk of oxygen toxicity and we don't know everything about the long term effects of O2 on children, but I'd argue that in general shallow depth sports diving you'll never get anywhere near either your CNS or pulmonary O2 limits anyway, so this argument is fairly well negated. The danger is with advanced and irresponsible divers pushing their limits on longer deeper dives!

The only argument I'd concede to is the enhanced level of understanding and responsibilty that's required to pass the course, always analysing the gas, and keeping within prescribed depth and time limits (that said 36% Nitrox is safe to near 28m/90ft even at a ppO2 of 1.4, a depth which is way beyond where a junior diver should be anyway). Also junior divers should always be diving with a parent or guardian anyway, so where's the problem (well OK, fair enough, this relies on the varying level of the adult/guardian, but there shouldn't be a problem should there ordinarily!).

As a sports, technical, and military instructor trainer, I have no problem with children diving within constraints, and would encourage everyone to dive on Nitrox for the enhanced safety it provides on shallow responsible dive profiles.

As DandyDon says: Unfortunately the rules are built in for the average person and mentality, and are designed to protect certifying associations from unneccesary litigation (although some of them are still driven by reducing standards as a means of increasing profits). It's a sad truth that we all have to adhere to, which is borne from our own current propensity to sue anyone and everyone for anything and everything!


regards
Dennis
 
mania:
Well, let's give him a break. After all he is only 14 years old.... A long way to being mature....
And anyway - one thing is true - as far as I was taught - nitrox is not for deep dives.
Anyway I can't even imagine 15 years old diving nitrox, after all it is dangerous if miscalculated.
Mania
Yes - I agree - I'm not trying to be nasty. However I would have got a very swift kick in the b*** from my Dad for being rude. Of course the other main point is that the ocean doesn't make distinctions on the basis of age. Diving is a dangerous sport that needs a correct, trained approach. I know nitrox isn't for deep dives, but deep is relative. At the depths that junior diver is talking about you possibly could use nitrox - but it's also a maximum depth dive for a young diver. I'm not sure if I think it's a very good idea though - when I think back to my own maths/physics understanding at 13. Some kids probably can do it great - but there are also lots of adults who have problems with the concept of partial pressures etc.
 
Hmmnnn, seems we have some opinions and LOTS of opinions about the opinions. The latter aren't really helping us to understand the issue, so I shall refrain. :D

There is a lot to pediatric diving that is NOT understood yet. How increased N2 affects bone growth is one, and the pulmonary effects of oxygen over 1.0 ata is another. While we can make some inferences as to what may or may not happen, hyperbaric physiology is seldom predictable, and even less so when we are trying to determine long term effects on growing tissues.

So in lieu of hard and fast data, the agencies are taking a conservative approach. In this litigious society, I really can't blame them.

For me, 14 is the youngest anyone should learn to dive. There are a lot of skills and fun to be had snorkeling before then. Until 18, divers should be restricted to 3/4s of their NDL. No sense in trying to push limits just to say you can. In that respect, anything that increases bottom time would also increase exposure to these hyperbaric conditions. It's a huge ocean... there is no need to rush things here. There is plenty of time after you finish growing to explore our underwater world.

BTW, I am not a medical doctor... I fix sick Networks. I am an instructor and advisor for a Boy Scout Venture Crew, The Scubaducks. So I have to make decisions about youth and diving all of the time. A conservative approach is always best.
 
Until someone is 15, they are limited to 40'. Assuming recreational single-tank diving, there's enough bottom time without riding the NDL for just about any underwater recreational activity. Therefore, Nitrox is of less benefit (notice I didn't say "no" benefit).

Couple the reduced benefit sited above with the increased dangers and complexity of calculations, and I believe the agencies are justified in having this limit.

By all means, buy your child the Nitrox manual for the certification course of your choice. I think you will begin to understand why this limit is in place, even if it appears not to fit your child. Certain people will be ready before the minimum age, but that's the case with many things in life...
 
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