cheap halcyon gear

[-hh]

SeaJay once bubbled...


I don't. Instead I assume an absolute, and that's that the bladders are all filled to their maximum capacity. Every picture shows the same thing. And in that instance, there is no shifting of air in the BC bladder.

Now, if the bladder's only full, say, 10%, then of course there's going to be some shifting... But if you use my example to draw out each circumstance, you'll find that overall, shifting is something that should be avoided... Which is another reason why not to have the bladder "wrap around" the diver, but instead be situated only on one side.

The reality is that most BC's aren't going to be 100% full throughout a dive, so it must be considered.

On any "wrap around" bladder, the air will move with the diver's orientation, and generally prevent a torquing situation.

For a horizontal diver in a Jacket, the dorsal bladder will fill to 100% before there's any air in the ventrical (physics), and this puts the CP higher than the diver's body in this orientation.

Similarly, on many designs, the bladder is tapered (similar to that which you show in your illustration), thinner at the shoulders and wider at his waist -- the result of this is that when the diver is horizontal, the BC's bouyancy bubble is shifted closer to the diver's waist (and weightbelt and CG centriod). This is one design factor that separates a good BC from a bad one.

Okay, but that's not what you said. You said to keep "QD's" in your save-a-dive kit.

I did? Oops. My intent was a "repair for a failed QD", not necessarily a literal physical QD.

Waddaya say we just go diving?

My next dive trip will be to the Brac in a few weeks...if you're free this fall and want to risk a trip to the Tiara, drop me a PM and we'll compare dates. BTW, the Caymans have changed their dive regulations, including bumping their max allowed depth from 110fsw to 130fsw, as well as a few other changes, which means we'll be slightly more "legal" on this next trip!


-hh

 

[-hh]

SeaJay once bubbled...

I dive from boats almost exclusively and I've never wanted a "QD." In fact, I can't remember the last time I handed my life support to anyone. It's always come out of the water with me, even in 8' seas....And you think this is simpler or safer than exiting the water while wearing your gear? Or just ducking out of it?

Its not a question of which is safer...I'd prefer to climb up too. Instead, it is the question of what water exit procedure is available from the boat that you're diving on.

As a rule of thumb, I'd say that if the boat is small enough such that water entries are backrolls, its probably too small of a boat to have a big, robust dive ladder to climb back onboard with all your gear on, so you're going to have to go to some other plan.


For example, in the Galapagos, all the liveaboard scuba diving is done from "Panga's", which is their local word for a Zodiak Boat or small fiberglass runabout. Most (including Peter Hughes) uses Zodiaks, which don't have any dive ladder or transom.

So water entry is done via backroll off the side.

Upon your return, there's some lines along the side of the pontoon and no ladder...how are you going to get back onboard?

The answer is that you hand up your weights, then your BC/tank, and then yhou get yourself back onboard by a combination of using the handholds along with a "dip 'n kick", powered by your fins. You get your chest over, and then you rotate to get a leg over, or you do an ungraceful faceplant into the bottom of the Zodiak. You are now free to take off your mask & fins ;-)


For small fiberglass boats, their ladders are often too lightly constructed to support the full weight of a diver with his gear on...they're really more of "swimmer" ladders. I was in Bequia this spring, and the dive operation I used also called for handing your gear up before climbing onboard, and in this circumstance, that included weights, tank/BC, and fins...and their ladder already had several repair welds, etc.


I've tried water exits such as these both ways...with and without popping a QD. I found that in general, the QD was a convenience worth having and using; YMMV.


FWIW, I also was vindicated in finding that a deployed snorkel is worth having too: another customer in Bequia probably swallowed 40 gallons of water in 3 days, all because she insisted on keeping her snorkel in her pocket, and on the surface, her Wing kept on torquing her over to do faceplants in the ~2ft seas and a mouthfull while we were waiting for pickup. The more I do warmwater drift diving, the less I like using a wing configuration.


-hh

 

[SeaJay]

To each his own, I suppose.

Since you asked... I get into a 15' jonboat while fully geared by putting my body horizontal at the surface, next to the boat, and then swinging a farside leg over. Even with a "lip" on the boat of 12" or more, I have no problems exiting like this, even fully geared. I end up on my hands and knees in the boat - a very stable position, even if not all that graceful-looking.

This could not be performed on a Zodiac.

I've always left the water when diving a Zodiac by climbing up the motor and stepping in next to the transom.

Alternatively, one could remove their gear as you've done... By inflating the wing and then ducking down out of the gear, leaving it to float on the surface. I don't do that, but it is an alternative.

It sounds like your friend had more than snorkel issues... She had trim issues as well.

 

[-hh]

SeaJay once bubbled...
This could not be performed on a Zodiac.

I've always left the water when diving a Zodiac by climbing up the motor and stepping in next to the transom.

It is a YMMV...personally, I have a strong preference to stay away from running engines as much as reasonably possible, and all outboards in particular.

Alternatively, one could remove their gear as you've done... By inflating the wing and then ducking down out of the gear, leaving it to float on the surface. I don't do that, but it is an alternative.

That head-dunking is pretty much the only way to get out of gear that lacks QD's, particularly if you want to have the tank/BC combo positively bouyant so that it doesn't sink and get lost as soon as you pull out of it.

Personally, I don't like this technique because it means that I must lose direct eye contact with the boat, which means that there's the distinct possibility of getting brained with the boat during those few moments that its tossing around in the water and you're unable to watch/anticipate (and protect versus) its every movement. YMMV, but I consider this to pragmatically be a higher system safety risk than a QD fastener failure, hence my choice.

It sounds like your friend had more than snorkel issues... She had trim issues as well.

Yes, but with lighter weight travel gear (no 8lb SS plate) and floaty Resort AL80 tanks, its no mean task to trim out a wing configuration such that it's not going to torque you face-down to some degree. I won't say that its impossible, but unless you have a keel weight pocket added to your BC strap to compensate for the lack of mass in a AL backplate that would otherwise be there with a SS one, its pretty darn close.


On the snorkel, this divers distress was really due to illogically priortizing the modern "streamlining" nonsense over basic dive safety while on a clutter-free drift dive where neither entanglements nor streamlining are a meaningful issue.

The underlying problem was that the workload task of deploying her snorkel (either on the surface, or on her safety stop prior to surfacing) exceeded her abilities due to other workload complications, namely an UW camera. Fortunately, the only thing hurt was her upper GI and pride. Unfortunately, she kept on making the same basic mistake, day after day, because she was following someone else's "optimized system" without objectively thinking for herself its applicability for her needs.

In other words, the question that really must be raised was why she insisted on sticking with a system that obviously wasn't working.

IMO, this diver was absolutely determined to not wear a snorkel no matter what, probably because she was in "Monkey See, Monkey Do" mode, and the trend today is to copy the Cavers (note that she already had the wings).

If we check out http://www.gue.com/equipment/equip-anatomy.shtml we find there's absolutely no mention of a snorkel at all. Of course, they're not of much use in a cave, but this is merely just another example of how one configuration isn't optimum for all diving, regardless of what its proponents might otherwise claim.

Bottom line is that being a follower only goes so far: you really have to think for yourself, objectively understand what your operational requirements are, and work accordingly. If this means that you predeploy a snorkel onto your mask strap and surrender ~0.1% in streamlining so that your post-dive float becomes ~33% easier/safer, then so be it.


-hh

 

[jplacson]

Hmm... I did notice that the Halcyon is a lot more difficult to remove than a regular BC...specially with the crotch strap.

Would adding a QD on just one shoulder strap be so bad? Or would it be 'safer' to just wear the shoulder straps a bit loose?

 

[bandit_TX]

If you can't slip one arm out of your Halcyon rigging without ducking underwater, you have the shoulder straps alot tighter than I do. I can just tuck in my arm, slip it under the strap and I'm out, one handed. And no, I'm not a teenager. I've done alot of backrolls in Tobago and climbed the side of alot of wooden fishing boats. You guys both have strong opinions and like your current setups. I switched from a BC to BP last year and love it. It allowed me to drop 8 pounds of lead, streamline considerably, sit more comfortably on the surface (damn BC was bad about riding up, and I don't need the crotch strap on the BP), and the tank doesn't roll around on my back. Face plants haven't been an issue at all. For shore diving, the rig rests on my hips like a good backpack, not hanging from my shoulders. I shoot UW photo as well and I like not having the BC in my way. It was more expensive than the BC I was wearing, but for me, it was worth it. I still put new students in BC's initially, and for many people, they'll feel more comfortable that way. I very much believe 'to each his own' as long as it doesn't get either one of us killed.

 

[2scuba]

Recently I just bought the the Halycon Pioneer with 27# wing. I did a weight check with my full gear and 7-6-5 wetsuit. I weight 175lbs. I was neutrally buoyant with 26lbs around my waist at 200PSI.

On my first I dive, I had two 10lbs block on my side, two 2lbs block on the front and one 2lbs block on my back. When I was floating, I was "pitching forward".

On my second dive, I had two 10lbs block on my back, one 2lbs block between the 10lbs blocks on back and two 2lbs block on my side. This time I wasn't "pitching forward" but I wasn't floating around my neck. My nose was floating below the water line! My wing was fully blown up.

Is the wing too small for me?

Thanks for all your help.

 

[bandit_TX]

You have 26# of lead on 27# wing. Add a tank (filled) and you've overloaded the wing. I'd move up to the 36# wing.

 

[jplacson]

I'm no expert, but aren't you contradicting yourself? How can you be neutrally buoyant if you only float with a full bladder?

You're supposed to float at eye-level with an empty tank, and empty bladder (thanks to Seajay for correcting me)

If you pitch forward, you should try attaching the 2# to your outer tank strap to act as a counterweight.

Wow...26# that's a lot though. I've never used a 6/7mm suit, so I can't imagine diving with that much lead on me.

Another thing... are you using the 6#SS BP? If you are, you can also add another 6# of non-ditchable weight on the STA...that way, you've got 12# on your BC...in that config, that should be pretty balanced as is.

Then you'll just need 2 6lbs on each side of your weight belt.. that's a lot easier to manage, and easier on your back/waist.

The last 2lbs can be a trim counterweight on your tank strap if you still find yourself pitching forward on the surface.

Although, from your description, your rig sounds incredibly overweight.. you should ditch some lead and check it out again. I'll be doing the same over the weekend to balance out my new Pioneer 27

 

[Ben_ca]

Sounds like you are overweighted... Try a bouyancy check next time.... I was diving with 22 before with a SQ Balance, switched to SS Halcyon BP 27# wing now I'm down to 10# weight belt with a steel tank and wetsuit.

Ben