Cheap Bastard Divers

[vladimir]

Why spend more money than you have too? (especially on a firefighters income). My gear probably didnt cost near as much as some people have invested in their own gear and it has gotten me to the bottom of where I am diving and back to the surface alive, everytime I have used it.

Thus far.

 

[Ann Marie]

I have to say that I am NOT a CBD when it comes to activities. I work too hard (well, not often but I work) to be too concerned about my "fun" as long as bills are paid and money is in the retirement funds.

There are things that I won't spend my cash on because it isn't 'worth' it too me, but our enjoyment isn't one of them!!

For example, now that it costs about $100 to fill up at the gas station, I have a hard time paying another $20 to get my truck washed!

 

[ReefHound]

If that's your preference, have at it. When I've looked at second-hand gear for sale here, I didn't see much of a deal. Most folks who are selling want to sell the whole kit and kaboodle and try to recoup what they paid for it. And I don't want someone's wife's gear. Very likely, she didn't purchase the gear of the quality I wanted. I don't have to have a new thing every year, but I don't mind paying for what I want as long as I think that the price is reasonable. I have also purchased second-hand tanks. However, they weren't that old and were still in VIP and hydro.

We are all entitled to our own preferences. However, I initially responded to you because of your statement "For the record, I have never bought any gear second hand. " as if it were something to be avoided at all costs. You listed a few reasons that I don't think justify such an across the board decision - used gear loses warranty and after service it costs as much as new. I disagreed because most gear doesn't need a warranty or service, and savvy shopping can get used gear for about half of new.

You have now said you bought your wetsuit used and tanks used, irrefutably proving your original statement false. Anything else? Fins? Maybe a reel?

 

[bfw]

When I've looked at second-hand gear for sale here, I didn't see much of a deal.

You don't know where and how to look, then.

Most folks who are selling want to sell the whole kit and kaboodle and try to recoup what they paid for it.

...and apparently, how to negotiate a deal, either.

And I don't want someone's wife's gear. Very likely, she didn't purchase the gear of the quality I wanted.

You keep revealing that you don't know what you're talking about. Often, the already diving spouse is very experienced, and buys the best there is. "She" didn't select the gear, "he" did.

I don't have to have a new thing every year,

Start reading and stop assuming. I never said YOU had to; I said that SOME PEOPLE have to, and there are good deals to be had in their ownership "wake."

I have also purchased second-hand tanks.

So now your entire thesis has been revealed to be false.

I usually buy those used, because there's lots of places and people to fix them the prices to do so are usually reasonable.

Not really. Many late model cars are dealer-only because some manufacturers are getting highly proprietary about diagnostic data. Unless you DIY, car repair is not cheap.

My last car, however, I did buy new. However, I only paid a 3% mark up over dealer invoice at the start of the model year.

That statement brands you as a naive consumer. Unless you know someone at the bank that floorplans the dealer, you don't have a real invoice number. And no, the service from Consumer Reports doesn't tell you the real invoice, either.

The "invoice" price is a useless and misleading piece of information, and has little to no value in meaningful negotiation. More often than not, the dealer sees it as a tactic to convince buyers that he's taking a bath on the deal when he's actually getting a tidy profit.

In addition, of the brand, the price of a four year old second-hand model wasn't low enough for me to want something that someone's taken crap care of for four years!

That's an assumption for which you have no basis. You really have no idea how it's been cared for. With a new car you have no idea how the car's been abused on test drives, either. The best determination is to buy from a private seller and see where they live and their other belongings.

I also wanted a vehicle that would hold it's value and outrun the time it was going to take for me to pay it off.

Another data point against taking your consumer advice - you financed a depreciating asset.

At this point, my car is 8 1/2 years old and the Kelley blue is still over $10K. And it's not a high end car. It's a Honda. So it just goes to show, if you shop around, you can really get the best deal and you don't necessarily always need to purchase someone's second-hands.[/quote]

Don't crow too loudly. If it's a Honda, there's DEFINITELY no great gain in buying new. At 100K miles, a Honda is just getting started.

 

[MeiLing]

You don't know where and how to look, then....and apparently, how to negotiate a deal, either. You keep revealing that you don't know what you're talking about. Often, the already diving spouse is very experienced, and buys the best there is. "She" didn't select the gear, "he" did.

You don't know me, so you have absolutely no idea of my ability to negotiate a deal!

Perhaps that is what happens where you’re at, here things are different. Much more often than not the diving spouse buys the wife’s gear right after basic certification before he really has much experience himself. He hasn’t bought the best set of gear for himself yet, he damn sure doesn’t know what to buy for the wife. He buys what he thinks will make her happy in a shade of pink! I’ve seen it happen here far too often to think anything different!

And my husband worked in a dive shop so I know what the markup is!

Start reading and stop assuming. I never said YOU had to; I said that SOME PEOPLE have to, and there are good deals to be had in their ownership "wake."

So now your entire thesis has been revealed to be false.

You’re the one who needs to start reading because I never had thesis to begin with! All I stated was that due to warranty considerations, some gear is best bought new with the warranty still intact and that with the price of repairing old gear out of warranty plus the cost most folks want for their old gear, it usually isn’t really much of a deal! Tanks and wetsuits are not usually repaired and rarely come with any sort of warranty! Unless they fail on the first use, you really don’t have much recourse from the retailer or the manufacturer.

Not really. Many late model cars are dealer-only because some manufacturers are getting highly proprietary about diagnostic data. Unless you DIY, car repair is not cheap.

So now you’re proving your own thesis wrong!

That statement brands you as a naive consumer. Unless you know someone at the bank that floorplans the dealer, you don't have a real invoice number. And no, the service from Consumer Reports doesn't tell you the real invoice, either.

The "invoice" price is a useless and misleading piece of information, and has little to no value in meaningful negotiation. More often than not, the dealer sees it as a tactic to convince buyers that he's taking a bath on the deal when he's actually getting a tidy profit.

Oh really! It may not be quite as low as they got it for, but me having that bit of knowledge sure helped me get a considerably better deal than I would have if I hadn’t had it! For example, here they try to jack up the price by several thousand on the basis that it costs them more to get it here. It doesn’t but they like you to think that. Since I knew better, I wasn’t biting.

Yes, they may have made a tidy profit. That’s the general assumption that one goes into to business for! Just because a business owner made a profit, doesn’t mean someone didn’t get a good deal when they purchased from them.

When you buy something secondhand, you don’t really know whether they made a profit on it either. They may have gotten it for free and just made a profit off of you! So you just think you got a deal! So actually it’s all about whatever the buyer’s perception is.

That's an assumption for which you have no basis. You really have no idea how it's been cared for. With a new car you have no idea how the car's been abused on test drives, either. The best determination is to buy from a private seller and see where they live and their other belongings.

How are you really supposed to use that for a determination? I’ve known lots of folks who lived in nice places and had nice things that they took care of while they abused the hell out of their vehicles!

Furthermore, if the price was right, I’d consider 100 miles of abuse preferable to possibly 100K. And when you buy second hand, you really have no idea of whether that car was abused at the dealer either. My car had 5 miles on it when I got it. Interestingly enough that is about the distance from the harbor to the dealership!

Another data point against taking your consumer advice - you financed a depreciating asset.

Dude, when you don’t have the money and you need a car, what other option do you have? It’s not like it’s not a depreciating asset when you buy it used! I may have paid more because I financed it than I would if I had had the money, but I got a stellar credit score out of it that will allow me to easily buy a house in a tight credit market when the bottom of the slump hits here. And I got a stellar car! I’m happy!

How is that poor consumer advice? Because I’ve financed a thing or two over my adult life? What American hasn’t?

Don't crow too loudly. If it's a Honda, there's DEFINITELY no great gain in buying new. At 100K miles, a Honda is just getting started.

Considering that, at the time, 4 year old Hondas were selling here, on the open market for only $4K less than the new ones, and I paid $5K less on this car than the dealer wanted from me, I think I got a hell of a deal.

Furthermore, my car only has 35K miles on it at this point, so really it’s still new, by your thesis! It may be a Honda but considering the model I bought (2000 Accord Coupe EX V6) and the fact the boys at the dealership still all drool over it when I bring it in, I must be doing something right. They offer to buy it from me all the time! However, that’s not going to happen! I’m going to drive it ‘til the wheels fall off and can’t be put back on anymore!

In addition, the reason that I wanted a Honda in the first place had to due with its ability to hold its value and the quality of the car. Overall, it makes not a lot of difference how good I take care of my car, if its end demise is the result of an accident. Happened to me twice, both not my fault – both times the other drivers were uninsured, so I wanted a car that would at least have some value that I could recoup a little something through insurance to buy the next one! Personally, I felt that the time it would take me scrounging around forever trying to find the ultimate best deal out there was not time I wanted to spend. My time has value too!

Toyota is also a quality car but here one distributorship owns all the dealerships so unless you know somebody, nobody here gets a deal.

You may think I am niave, but you really don’t me or what I know. The people who know me and the car salesman who I bought my car from know better! And I have better things to do than sit on a BB with some schmuck who likes to twist people’s words to try to make themselves look superior!

I’m done with you! I’m going diving!:mooner:

 

[dpbishop]

:bigun2: Give to 'em Lisa!!!

Most of my gear is so old I can't remember if I bought it new or used. I know the AT-Pac was used when I got it, which was at least 20 years ago. Even if you buy it new, it's used after the first dive. But then according to some people on this board I should have died 30 years ago diving with the equipment I had then. No computer, used regulator, capillary depth gauge, oral inflater on the BC. People need to lighten up.

 

[captain]

It's not the age of the equipment that matters, it's how you maintain and use it. 70 year old aircraft are still flying and my 50 year old equipment is still diving.

 

[Stu S.]

How you aquire dive equipment is your personal business. All the rest of us care about is that you use it safely. And... most of us hope you have fun with it.

Cheap is the diver that stands with his arms folded while others are chipping-in at the gas station. It is also the guy who borrows your full nitrox tanks and returns them empty. It is the man who bargained for half an hour to get $10 more off a Scubapro regulator being sold by an expecting mother.

Very often, cheap is thrift that has turned rude.

 

[MeiLing]

It's not the age of the equipment that matters, it's how you maintain and use it. 70 year old aircraft are still flying and my 50 year old equipment is still diving.

That's certainly true! However, if it was not well made to begin with, taking good care of it isn't going to improve that situation. Some stuff is great second hand and some stuff is better bought new depending on the price and possibly the warranty.

And like Stu said, how each of us get our gear is our own personal business! I'm sure each of us has paid for things throughout our lifetime that another wouldn't spend the money on! It's all a personal choice if we're spending our own money or are willing to pay the finance charges if isn't!

 

[MeiLing]

The people who know me and the car salesman who I bought my car from know better!

Add to that one AT&T customer service rep who I kept on the phone for an hour and a half after AT&T bought out my cellular carrier and wouldn't honor my original contract. A co-worker and I double teamed her until she coughed up 1500 anytime minutes a month for each of us! And we both kept that for several years until our respective phones died! Then I switched to Verizon!

She kept telling me that they'd be happy to let me out of my contract. Considering that was back in the days when you had to pay a startup fee and buy the phone and I was only 2 months into that contract, I wasn't biting!