Certification Requirements to Dive

[danhool34]

It's ALL ABOUT LIABILITY. That's it. Very simple. If all you had was OW cert and a diving accident happened at 61 feet, the dive operator could and would get sued, possibly forcing them out of business. Liability wavers are a joke. Definitely not worth it for them. Unfortunately, our country is a litigious state, and we must get used to it. One thing I will say, though, is that a good dive operator and/or DM will look at a diver's complete history before an "advanced level" dive, and should even accompany divers on an easy "warm up" dive beforehand to get a feel for how far along their skills really are, especially when that person is AOW with 8 dives under their belt. For example, on a recent trip to the Blue Hole in Belize, where you go down to the recreational dive limit, our group did 7 dives with the DM beforehand so that he could determine everyone's skill and safety level.

 

[seaducer]

I'd say find another dive charter.

^^^This ^^^ Either the operator you called is hamstrung by their insurance to require AOW or they are being unhelpful. Especially in the NE there are alot of divers with OW only doing some very advanced diving. You are going to sign a waiver and you can show a logbook (fake or not that should have as much wieght in court as a AOW card).

I would sign up for AOW at some point soon if I were you anyway, just so you don't have to play games like this in the future. There are some local instructors who offer courses that will challenge you, so if you want training look them up. If you just want the card...any shop should be able to accomodate.

 

[Jaydubya]

Most places around here will accept a certain amount of experience in lieu of AOW. I wonder which shop this was. PM me if you like.

 

[mfolsom]

And...If you pay them the extra $50 would you end up with an AOW certification?

 

[BVickery]

Yeah, the charter could use the "liability" line, but really it's about $$$$$$. You're on a dive boat, and you've already signed a liability waiver. Their asses are covered.

Wouldn't count on it. Depending on the language of the release and the mood of the judge, they may OR may not make it in. So many people use blanket form liability waivers it is hard to enforce (I was Pre-Law and had a practicing attorney come for a lecture about his area of study). As a business owner, in this highly litigious society I wouldn't risk the chance of losing my entire business for a few hundred dollars, if that. As Tstromdiver pointed out, there are people who can have 100's of dives and be a risk and all the certs in the world while there could be another who only has a handful of dives and is much less of one. From a defensive standpoint IF, and not saying it would happen just a big if, the OP got injured or killed his family would go after the dive op because, well, sadly in the US if something goes bad it is someones fault and someone MUST pay (just look at the McDonalds lawsuit, guy puts a HOT cup of coffee between his legs, it spills and gets millions of dollars because he burned himself with it. Doesn't matter he put the coffee in an unsafe area).

 

[freewillie]

Yeah, the charter could use the "liability" line, but really it's about $$$$$$. You're on a dive boat, and you've already signed a liability waiver. Their asses are covered.

Not really. The dive operator may have a waiver, and they may ultimately be able to defend the waiver, but that does not mean that the dive charter can't be sued anyways.

Also, the insurance operator may require that all divers have proper certification. That would require the dive charter to ask for the AOW certification and proper documentation to comply with their own insurance policy.

Nobody is saying that certification takes the place of experience, or makes you a safer diver, just that you have completed the course and have had the instruction with the certificate verifying completion.

 

[joel smith]

It was explained to me an ow is a learners lisence , the aow is your drivers lisence. This makes alot of sence to me. I have a good aow instructer, you should give it a shot with a good instructer you might learn somthing and have fun at the same time.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

It was explained to me an ow is a learners lisence , the aow is your drivers lisence. This makes alot of sence to me. I have a good aow instructer, you should give it a shot with a good instructer you might learn somthing and have fun at the same time.

That is a myth that is constantly being perpetrated to generate cash flow. My OW divers by agency standards are technically certed to 100ft. They are advised to stay above 60 until they gain some experience and work up to deeper and more challenging dives but for all intents and purposes they get everything they need to dive unescorted with a buddy of equal skill and training. They have the knowledge to plan dives to 100ft and the basic skills to build on over time to do that. If they want to get there faster then they can take my AOW class. But an OW license only being a license to learn- that is a rip off. It's a license to dive. The learning should already have taken place.

If you are going to take an AOW class with your level of experience don't let anyone railroad you into a "taste" or "tour" course. There are some of us who teach AOW classes that will challenge you. I can assure you that if you were to take my class with your experience you would not get away with simple skills. I would make sure I ratcheted up the course I teach now which most new OW divers would not even be allowed to start fresh out of OW checkouts. We'd have some fun running a nav exercise at 80 or 90 feet in the dark. Doing air shares swims at 100 and no mask ascents from that depth with simulated deco stops.

My AOW class outline is available to anyone who wants it. Just send me your email and see what an AOW class can contain and be worth the price of the course.

 

[joel smith]

That is a myth that is constantly being perpetrated to generate cash flow. My OW divers by agency standards are technically certed to 100ft. They are advised to stay above 60 until they gain some experience and work up to deeper and more challenging dives but for all intents and purposes they get everything they need to dive unescorted with a buddy of equal skill and training. They have the knowledge to plan dives to 100ft and the basic skills to build on over time to do that. If they want to get there faster then they can take my AOW class. But an OW license only being a license to learn- that is a rip off. It's a license to dive. The learning should already have taken place.

If you are going to take an AOW class with your level of experience don't let anyone railroad you into a "taste" or "tour" course. There are some of us who teach AOW classes that will challenge you. I can assure you that if you were to take my class with your experience you would not get away with simple skills. I would make sure I ratcheted up the course I teach now which most new OW divers would not even be allowed to start fresh out of OW checkouts. We'd have some fun running a nav exercise at 80 or 90 feet in the dark. Doing air shares swims at 100 and no mask ascents from that depth with simulated deco stops.

My AOW class outline is available to anyone who wants it. Just send me your email and see what an AOW class can contain and be worth the price of the course.

I understand the myth thing I actually took it as a joke no offence intended. The reason I am taking the aow class is because I love diving and want to be a better more experienced diver. I have been biving for only 8 months w/ 15 dives my aow instructer is great , I have dove with him 3 times and have learned more in those 3 dives than i have the rest of the time diving.After 300 dives im sure your qualified , but for a new diver I think aow is valuable is this a great sport or what.

 

[elan]

I've logged 300 dives or so over the last few years with over 150 of those dives between 110ft and 120ft. I dive with a lot of friends on their boats offshore and have only been on 30 chartered dives of the 300. I always have the most experienced diver on the trip sign my log book, many times he/she is a Dive Master, and sometimes an instructor rating. As far as Cert Cards, I only have my Open Water Certification and got my Nitrox just to get my LP120s filled.

Will most places take the logbook with signatures and diver/masterdiver numbers as a substitute for Advanced Open Water certification? I called a dive shop in the Carolinas today about a trip while my Fiance and I are visiting. I called to inquire about a wreck dive in 80ft of water, which required an AOW Cert. My fiance does have her Advanced Open Water but has logged only about 50 dives and is much less experienced than myself. Despite my experience level and my Fiance as a dive buddy, they told me I would have to either take their Advanced Open Water Class the day before the trip or pay $50 extra on my trip to have an extra dive master "babysit" us on the dive since BOTH of us did not have an advanced open water certification.

Is this the normal with dive shops? I thought this was a ridiculous attempt to just suck some cash out of my pocket. I'd much rather spend $50 in the dive shop for something I can use than pay $50 for something I certainly don't need on a simple 80ft wreck dive on a big charter boat.

Im this situation look for a different charter or pay the dm.

In a long run just suck it up and do AOW class it will make the life easier down the road. In order not to waste your money find a good instructor that can teach you good stuff even after 300 dives. There are few instructors on the board that can sure make you task loaded even with that amount of experience.


I did my AOW with 70 dives behind the belt for that same reason and my instructor made me work. I still learned a lot and the money were well spent.