Certification problems

[JonnieB]

being a text or not, it at least is something in writing and to me, clearly shows there is some hanky panky going on.
the bottom line is, a padi customer is being denied their certification. padi should be concerned with this.
now padi may not have any final say in how the dive shop decides to deal with financial disputes, bit they certainly should be concerned when a shop refuses to issue a cert.
i would have thought they would at least make an attempt to help sort things out.
i am confident ssi would.

But are they a "PADI customer"? They have had no interaction with PADI during the course (other than access to eLearning modules) and have paid no monies to PADI. Even certified divers are not customers of PADI; and after certification have no interaction nor pay any money to PADI.

 

[Centrals]

deleted.

 

[boulderjohn]

But are they a "PADI customer"? They have had no interaction with PADI during the course (other than access to eLearning modules) and have paid no monies to PADI. Even certified divers are not customers of PADI; and after certification have no interaction nor pay any money to PADI.

They did not do eLearning, so they had no contact with PADI whatsoever.

Also - my son did not do e-learning. It was all books/videos. Nothing was completed online (other than him setting up a PADI account to log divers). Everything was done using paper forms. We are therefore dependent upon the centre submitting those forms to PADI.

 

[rick00001967]

But are they a "PADI customer"? They have had no interaction with PADI during the course (other than access to eLearning modules) and have paid no monies to PADI. Even certified divers are not customers of PADI; and after certification have no interaction nor pay any money to PADI.

hey i totally see your point and it is certainly valid.

but we could also look at it this way......if you buy a chevy truck from a chevy dealer you are the dealers customer right? you are not a chevy customer.

but if you had a problem with that dealer, wouldnt it be nice if you could receive some help from chevy to sort it out? would chevy not benefit from trying to make sure the customer was treated fairly by its representative?

the reality is, that in most cases, you are right, and padi would be able to do nothing. but if the padi shop broke any standards during training or in this case, perhaps they may have broken a code of ethics they are expected to uphold, then you would think padi would at least make an attempt to straighten it out.

lets remember, when things like this happen, it not only reflects badly on the shop itself, but also on the agency they represent.

 

[JonnieB]

hey i totally see your point and it is certainly valid.

but we could also look at it this way......if you buy a chevy truck from a chevy dealer you are the dealers customer right? you are not a chevy customer.

but if you had a problem with that dealer, wouldnt it be nice if you could receive some help from chevy to sort it out? would chevy not benefit from trying to make sure the customer was treated fairly by its representative?

the reality is, that in most cases, you are right, and padi would be able to do nothing. but if the padi shop broke any standards during training or in this case, perhaps they may have broken a code of ethics they are expected to uphold, then you would think padi would at least make an attempt to straighten it out.

lets remember, when things like this happen, it not only reflects badly on the shop itself, but also on the agency they represent.

I do agree with your analogy to a point...about the agency relationship between PADI and PADI dive shops. There are standards (primarily on dive instruction) that are enforced by PADI. I don't know if this also includes codes of business conduct by PADI agencies. As for the vehicle buyer, the warranty is a contract between the purchaser and the manufacturer, directly, not the dealer, so there is a bit of a breakdown in the analogy there. But the overall point is valid, that PADI has a reputation to uphold as a trustworthy dive training agency both in instruction and honest dealing by those selling its training program. Unfortunately, I think here is an example of a "scammy" way to quote a lower initial course cost to rope in a student (breaking down course costs into modules, including final certification) that while certainly not best practice doesn't actually break any PADI agency rules. PADI let's shops run their business affairs pretty much how they want, and what local laws and market conditions dictate.

 

[JonnieB]

They did not do eLearning, so they had no contact with PADI whatsoever.

You're right, I'd forgotten that point.

 

[KatieMac]

A course price quote that doesn't include submitting the final paperwork to PADI for certification, but having it as a separate fee, isn't a "personal dispute." It's a scammy business practice but I've heard of dive centers breaking down different parts of courses into separate charges so they can quote cheaper prices when potential clients walk in the door.

Is it scammy? Certainly from OP's perspective, it does sound scammy. But we really do not have both sides of the story.

OP shared pics of the text for the cost of books/license and for the certification (110 seems high though). Nothing about what the total cost was. Nothing about what was paid.

Image for a moment that we don't have all the relevant details. What recourse does a dive shop have to collect on an outstanding balance beyond withholding the paperwork for certification?

 

[JonnieB]

Is it scammy? Certainly from OP's perspective, it does sound scammy. But we really do not have both sides of the story.

OP shared pics of the text for the cost of books/license and for the certification (110 seems high though). Nothing about what the total cost was. Nothing about what was paid.

Image for a moment that we don't have all the relevant details. What recourse does a dive shop have to collect on an outstanding balance beyond withholding the paperwork for certification?

Yes I agree we only have one side of the dispute; that's why I haven't advocated that he complain to PADI. I think it's a dispute between him and the shop. While I don't think it's best practice to breakdown course cost into parts, if it's done, it should be clearly explained to potential students beforehand what the total cost, including final certification, will be. I thought the op said in a post he paid euro 340 or 350 and the shop wanted another E140 or so for the certification and the OW hard copy workbook. (Some have said it is cheap for an OW course in Egypt, which is normally 450-500; which would be the cost if the op paid the certification fee and book cost.). The E350 price may have been quoted to appear cheaper than other shops but they didn't explain the final certification fee.

 

[KatieMac]

I thought the op said in a post he paid euro 340 or 350 and the shop wanted another E140 or so for the certification and the OW hard copy workbook.

Hmm, the book! Is that the key? These books aren't cheap. When I did my course, I could read/reference the shop's manual. I couldn't keep it. It costs about $150 around here for a hard copy of the book.

 

[boulderjohn]

When I did my course, I could read/reference the shop's manual. I couldn't keep it.

That's against the rules. You are supposed to have a book you can keep so you can reference it later. It used to be done commonly in places like Mexico, as it was when I took the course. For a while, PADI started putting hologram stickers on the books used in countries where that was common, requiring that the sticker be affixed to the certification paperwork. That, of course, is ancient history now.

The cost of the book to the student is determined by the shop. They buy the book from PADI, but then most shops add to that cost when they sell it to the student.

If the shop loans the course materials to the student, then the only money PADI gets for a certification is the fee for the certification card, and, again, the shop can charge the student whatever they want for that card, with only a much smaller standard fee actually going to PADI.