Cert. cards can't be revoked for cause?

[nolatom]

What I am trying to point out is the almost total impossibility of a organization revoking cards for incompetence on so many hundreds of thousands of divers around the world. That's why I kept asking the questions about how it could be done. I would certainly rather not have a governmental agency stepping in with more regulations, as is happening in several locations, but I am still waiting to see a feasible way to do it. If you can't show how it can be done feasibly, then how can you say it will be a better alternative?

I'm not necessarily conceding it couldn't be done feasibly. I think a system of accident-based reporting and consequent investigation that could result in action against a certificate *might* work, and might be a limited enough internal regulation to forestall external regulation and not screw up diving in general.

Or there might be a better way, if more heads got together. But if we like the system as-is, then okay, heads won't get together. I just think the as-is will not produce a very robust "we are policing ourselves" defense against possible government encroachment.

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

I'm not necessarily conceding it couldn't be done feasibly. I think a system of accident-based reporting and consequent investigation that could result in action against a certificate *might* work, and might be a limited enough internal regulation to forestall external regulation and not screw up diving in general.

Or there might be a better way, if more heads got together. But if we like the system as-is, then okay, heads won't get together. I just think the as-is will not produce a very robust "we are policing ourselves" defense against possible government encroachment.

In an idealistic world, I would like to see the agencies investigated and their power to issues certs revoked when too many of their divers were in accidents.

Revoking a divers cert is even less meaningful than revoking a drivers license, which tends to be ignored (i.e. you are talking about the bottom feeders who flaunt the law anyway) even with significant police presence.

In the end, you can't fix stupid.

 

[Tropicalwolf]

Revoking Diving Card = Quite possibly the dumbest idea ever

 

[muddiver]

When is the last time you heard or read about sommeone's high school deploma being revoked? Same thing.

 

[diverrex]

It will never happen because by revoking cards for certain divers deemed unsafe it would imply that the agency is agreeing that the divers remaining with cards are safe creating potential liability. It is to the agencies' advantage that the card only mean that when it was issued the holder met certain conditions at that time.

 

[drrich2]

It would also imply the agency admitted having certified someone who was likely (or at least later became) 'unsafe' to begin with. This would be a competitive disadvantage when another agency claimed a lower unsafe cert. rate.

If the agency revoked anybody's cert., then if another accident happened with a different diver who 'had a history' & the agency could be argued to've known 'or should have known' and didn't investigate & remove his/her cert. before the accident, you've got a liability mess. Cert. revocation in effect creates a duty to monitor, at least in the eyes of some potential plaintiff's attorneys, I think.

And who decides what's 'safe?' How many people on this forum deride the 'typical' fresh out of OW cert. holder's skill level?

This gets back to the fact that no system is going to placate every busybody's concerns or prevent all accidents. The very institution of requiring diver cert.s to get service at dive shops & go on some trips or use some sites is supposed to address this. Every system you dream up will eventually be found faulty.

Stop the regulatory bureaucrats now! If any rise up & will not relent, drive them into the sea (without scuba gear or flotation - they can repent if they don't want to drown)! If freedom means much to you. The United States is choking on a regulatory big government mentality.

Richard.

 

[AbyssalPlains]

I don't see the point. Apart from the fact that we'd be opening a can of worms (In the eyes of a freshly certified noob, I'd probably deserve my cert revoked because I dive solo), what difference does it make? If someone is a sucky diver, why would and should I care? I select my buddies based on my impression of them and based on what i believe makes a competent diver, and I've never asked one for their card.

 

[redacted]

I would suspect that any C-card could be revoked with due process. But the certifying agency is not the judge.

 

[adurso]

Interesting; the assumption being made is that a c card is necessary, or required to scuba dive.

It is neither.

Revocation cannot stop someone from diving.

 

[DaleC]

What about a PADI trained diver who solo dives in direct contravention of that agencies safe diving practices.. revoke their card? If not, what would be a worse violation. How toothless would this revocation process be?