Cert. cards can't be revoked for cause?

[captain]

The old "government will get involved" pitch has been around since the 60's. So far the government hasn't gotten involved and I doubt the will unless divers start dying by the thousands every year or zombie divers start eating swimmers at the beach.

The only sugnificant government involvement recreational diving and mostly on the local level was requiring the diver down flag.

Commercial and professional diving safety falls under the umbrella of OSHA.

 

[levi]

Hi all, just my 2 cents on this whole thing. I think what the OP and some others are not understanding completely, is something that was mentioned back in the first page or 2, and that is - just like going to the local community college and getting a certificate that states you passed the Birdhouse Building Course, a c-card is nothing but a document stating that you have successfully completed a particular course at a particular point in time (in fact, if i recall PADI actually calls it a 'Certificate', not a 'certification'. There is no way to know how you will dive or how many birds will die in your houses over the next 20 years. one could say that is what a log book is for, but that is really beside the point also. A c-card does not GUARANTEE you the right to dive, per se. You can be refused a dive or fill by any shop, boat, organization or whatever, regardless of what cards you carry, at their discretion. So talking about revoking a c-card would be like the community college telling me they are going to revoke my Birdhouse Builder Diploma (doesn't matter the reason). and as an aside, it was also said earlier, the certified diver is responsible only for himself. I planning on going DM shortley and so i have been reading a lot and one thing in the padi DM material it talks about working with bad (certified) divers. even as a DM you are 'advise' the diver on how it should be done, however strongly, but in the end, it is still the 'divers' decision to follow your advise or not. i could go on, but honestly, it is really late and i have to go. if this doesn't make sense or seems incomplete i will add more tomorrow

 

[windapp]

Picture this scenario.

A guy has his card revoked, but says he lost it, so doesn't turn it in. A dive operator lets him on a dive based on his C-card. The card is subsequently lost before the end of the dive, and the diver, due to his own stupidity ends up dead for one reason or another. Then his family sues the dive operator for letting him dive without certification. After all, his certification was revoked.

 

[adurso]

Picture this scenario.

A guy has his card revoked, but says he lost it, so doesn't turn it in. A dive operator lets him on a dive based on his C-card. The card is subsequently lost before the end of the dive, and the diver, due to his own stupidity ends up dead for one reason or another. Then his family sues the dive operator for letting him dive without certification. After all, his certification was revoked.

<sigh> There is no certification necessary to scuba dive, the possession, lack of, or revocation of, an arbitrary certification is moot.

In the US anyone can sue anyone for anything, and they often do....the difficulty is in the defense of the suit, and in the substantiation of a preponderance of evidence for a plaintiff.

 

[rhwestfall]

........and the cost of defending yourself from frivolous suits.....

 

[supergaijin]

Orientation dives/ Check dives.

They inspire heated debates (a bit like snorkel threads) but they are useful for showing the real abilities of 'rescue divers who couldn't rescue themselves out of a paper bag' type divers. At least for unguided diving in a foreign country, I believe a minimum amount of awareness, skill and recent experience is needed to be safe. A certificate or subtly rounded-up number of dives isn't enough IMO.

I'm surprised this got to 8 pages to be honest- the OP sounded flippant enough I thought. I think everyone has encountered divers who you would love to see have their diving certs chopped in two.

The only way to minimise the number of bad divers out there is for operators to enforce a level of competence for diving. If check dives leave a bad taste in your mouth, then at the very least the first dive should be a simple, shallow dive in benign conditions. After this an educated decision can be made in regards to future dives. This will mean that the operator will have to make some hard decisions about denying some divers access to certain sites- or an opportunity to educate. Glass half empty or full?

 

[adurso]

And will the scuba police be conducting check dives for the shore divers?

 

[flots am]

And will the scuba police be conducting check dives for the shore divers?

Only in France . . .

flots.

 

[diverrex]

Orientation dives/ Check dives.

They inspire heated debates (a bit like snorkel threads) but they are useful for showing the real abilities of 'rescue divers who couldn't rescue themselves out of a paper bag' type divers. At least for unguided diving in a foreign country, I believe a minimum amount of awareness, skill and recent experience is needed to be safe. A certificate or subtly rounded-up number of dives isn't enough IMO.

I'm surprised this got to 8 pages to be honest- the OP sounded flippant enough I thought. I think everyone has encountered divers who you would love to see have their diving certs chopped in two.

The only way to minimise the number of bad divers out there is for operators to enforce a level of competence for diving. If check dives leave a bad taste in your mouth, then at the very least the first dive should be a simple, shallow dive in benign conditions. After this an educated decision can be made in regards to future dives. This will mean that the operator will have to make some hard decisions about denying some divers access to certain sites- or an opportunity to educate. Glass half empty or full?

I have no problem with ops requiring check out dives. It's my choice then to choose that op or not. I actually have much less of a problem with ops that go to shallow easy sites for the first dive of the trip. That works well where resorts tend to run say Sat to Sat guests, or have multiple boats with one each day going to the easy site.

 

[DaleC]

I've never encountered a diver whom I wished would have their C card chopped in half. Some divers I choose to avoid but as long as they aren't affecting me I don't care what they do.
Your business is not my business. My business is my business... and business is good