Ccr Diver From Ohio Died In Ginnie Springs Today...

[TONY CHANEY]

Again, I doubt that you could find 6 instructors who could describe this in any detail unless they were a researcher, a physician or in the medical field.

Well that is total BS reply! Once again you take things too personally. So let's exclude any diver, that might have some knowledge from a researcher, a physician or in the medical field. So just who do you suggest should provide this info? Maybe a diver that went to instructor without any knowledge of the biophysics of the cardio / pulmonary system?

Sorry too hard.... I was only trying to help. I suspect that the death was not due to CO2 and if you want to know why then ask me with a PM.

 

[TONY CHANEY]

Too many frauds who act like they know it all when the only thing they have going for them is their confidence. You can either back up the claims with fact or not. Then I'll know what your confidence is based on..

Hell, check me out. My name on here is my real name, Tony Chaney. I am a Respiratory Care Practitioner and a Registered Respiratory Therapist.

If you think about the dive gone bad then you will understand why I liked what JonnyC said. He is spot on IMHO!

 

[chillyinCanada]

(snip). I simply cannot believe that other diver like you post. .(snip)

I am glad that you edited your post to ask for, "a clear understanding of the pulmonary functions as well as blood chemistry going on." I might just start a thread based on your request.

I'm not sure if you meant "I cannot believe that other divers liked your post" but if that *is* what you meant, I was liking the part where netdoc asked you to start a thread. Thought that would be great! Looking forward to it.

I'm not a scientist though, perhaps I'll need you to talk down to me a little.

 

[TONY CHANEY]

I'm not sure if you meant "I cannot believe that other divers liked your post" but if that *is* what you meant, I was liking the part where netdoc asked you to start a thread. Thought that would be great! Looking forward to it.

I'm not a scientist though, perhaps I'll need you to talk down to me a little.

I am very sorry to have took the "like" in a wrong manner, I get it now.

 

[Nettie-NZ]

Tony - Please do start the thread. I'm strictly an OC diver and definitely not a medical person but like a lot of others I'm interested in what the gases are doing/ can do to our bodies when we dive

 

[The Chairman]

I suspect that the death was not due to CO2 and if you want to know why then ask me with a PM.

I suspect the very same and have stated that it sounds more like a life event (stroke?) than hypercapnia. But, I'm not a medical doctor. I only treat networks. Please share with us why here or send a PM. Thanks in advance.

I am a Respiratory Care Practitioner and a Registered Respiratory Therapist.

Thanks for making my point. The knowledge you're taking for granted is just not that common. Most of us don't/won't understand respiration like you do. I don't know that we ever need to, but I certainly would like the chance. Please be sure to post a link to that thread if/when you start it. It would be interesting.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

In terms of using the o2ptima for over a year it would depend on how much someone actually used it. Rebreather experience is based off 'hours on the unit' as in the number of hours underwater operating the unit. I could of had the unit for over a year but put little hours into it - In that case I would be an inexperienced operator but I would have owned it for a year. One rebreather dive can span several hours if you have enough bailout/deco gas.

Flight time is logged the same way - but quality also counts.

For example if your average flight is hand flying the aircraft to 200 ft then engaging the autopilot where you then just monitor the instrument for 95% of the total flight, I'd argue those hours are gaining you much experience. If on the other hand, you're actively flying the aircraft crop dusting, flying aerobatics, flying NDB, VOR or ILS instrument approaches to minimums with a standard 6 pack, that flight experience is probably a lot more valuable in terms of maintaining or improving skill levels.

The same applies to a rebreather. An hour in a quarry isn't the same intensity as an hour in a cave with frequent changes in depths, greater task loading and greater division of attention. An hour in a quarry is better than nothing, but it's not in the same class as a hour under more demanding conditions.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

You used the words sanity breaths, not me, so get salty with someone else.

Besides, sanity breaths do not exist. The idea that switching to open circuit will somehow restore mental capacity in the span of a few inhalation/exhalation cycles is not true. There are plenty of reasons to bail out, and many that will give you time to solve a problem and go back on the loop in one form or another. However, bailing out due to compromised mental acuity will do nothing in the span of several breaths to allow you to go back on the loop. If you bailed out because you recognized your mental state declining, you have a gas-compromised loop, and going back to a gas-compromised loop is a sure way to punch your ticket.

One of the theories that has been presented is that he had a CO2 hit and bailed. The fact that the symptoms of hypercapnia do not resolve themselves immediately, and the victim was still acting untoward, bolster the evidence that it is a possibility. It may not be at all, but it's a possibility. I am personally of the opinion that it was probably medical related, unless the timeline as presented has been miscommunicated. They had enough gas, especially with another team in the cave that turned the dive before they hit their turn pressure, so it seems that it was not an issue. If it was CO in his dil and his bailout, he wouldn't have lasted that long.

You've assumed that's the purpose of "sanity breaths". We can argue semantics but the fact is that if you think something is wrong with the loop, getting off the loop while you diagnose the problem isn't a bad idea. Call it what ever you want to call it.

I don't think anyone has assumed that this will restore mental function in the space of a few minutes let alone a few breaths, but the idea is to prevent any further degradation of mental acuity that may occur if you stay on the loop.

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I've stated a similar view that I doubt the rebreather was a factor and that a medical issue is far more likely given what was reported on the dive, the lack of any glaring issue with the rebreather post dive and my own observations pre-dive.

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I also get the feeling that picking at nits, if not outright starting an argument seems to be on your agenda. Sorry, but I just don't feel like playing, so just state what ever you want to say, but please try to do it without misrepresenting what's been said, by either substituting meaning, or changing the context in which it's said.

 

[Reku]

Flight time is logged the same way - but quality also counts.

For example if your average flight is hand flying the aircraft to 200 ft then engaging the autopilot where you then just monitor the instrument for 95% of the total flight, I'd argue those hours are gaining you much experience. If on the other hand, you're actively flying the aircraft crop dusting, flying aerobatics, flying NDB, VOR or ILS instrument approaches to minimums with a standard 6 pack, that flight experience is probably a lot more valuable in terms of maintaining or improving skill levels.

The same applies to a rebreather. An hour in a quarry isn't the same intensity as an hour in a cave with frequent changes in depths, greater task loading and greater division of attention. An hour in a quarry is better than nothing, but it's not in the same class as a hour under more demanding conditions.

Yup Yup. You make some good points. One hour is not equal to another in different environments. You could also argue that flying a rebreather manual is a better learning experience than using eCCR all the time. Most have said that manual is annoying at best, but it is good experience. This is slightly veering off topic now lol...

 

[JohnnyC]

You've assumed that's the purpose of "sanity breaths". We can argue semantics but the fact is that if you think something is wrong with the loop, getting off the loop while you diagnose the problem isn't a bad idea. Call it what ever you want to call it.

I don't think anyone has assumed that this will restore mental function in the space of a few minutes let alone a few breaths, but the idea is to prevent any further degradation of mental acuity that may occur if you stay on the loop.

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I've stated a similar view that I doubt the rebreather was a factor and that a medical issue is far more likely given what was reported on the dive, the lack of any glaring issue with the rebreather post dive and my own observations pre-dive.

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I also get the feeling that picking at nits, if not outright starting an argument seems to be on your agenda. Sorry, but I just don't feel like playing, so just state what ever you want to say, but please try to do it without misrepresenting what's been said, by either substituting meaning, or changing the context in which it's said.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say, sounds like you have an apparent misunderstanding of the meaning of the term sanity breath. The very idea of sanity breaths is that you get off the loop to restore mental acuity, or confirm that your mental acuity is compromised, and that's a physiological falsehood, as pointed out by @TONY CHANEY . Example, "I got down to depth and felt a little funny so I flipped my BOV to get a couple sanity breaths." That's context in which people use the term. Now if you think it's something else, I'm sorry, but you're just not correct. You're not talking about sanity breaths it seems, what you're talking about is called bailing out. It's not semantics. To try and play it off like that is disingenuous. Now that doesn't mean you can't sort a problem and get back on the loop, but that is not a "sanity breath." I seriously don't know how you can confuse the two unless you're being intentionally obtuse.

I have no agenda other than correcting incorrect info. Rebreather diving requires accuracy of explanation, especially since there are so many people who don't know when an incorrect assumption has been put forth as factual. I'm not misrepresenting anything, you however, are trying to argue semantics when it's not, you are misusing terminology. You can feel slighted by that statement all you want, it doesn't change things.