Tec diver dies in air deep dive challenge

[ginti]

It's not all that much different than this fatality. If the deceased had asked almost any competent person "is a deep air record on CCR a good idea?" the answer would have been no its a terrible idea. But it seems like he thought the basic rules of physiology and density applied to other people.

Exactly, that's my point. Also, the other report from the deep cave dive was crazy, and they followed the same exact process. Not asking enough or cutting corners when asking - because, "Hey, rules apply to others, not to us." And then they had a fatal accident.

I am really sorry for them and would feel better if they learned the lesson in a less painful way. I hope now they got the lesson (unfortunately, I doubt it).

 

[berndo]

It's not all that much different than this fatality. If the deceased had asked almost any competent person "is a deep air record on CCR a good idea?" the answer would have been no its a terrible idea. But it seems like he thought the basic rules of physiology and density applied to other people.

I disagree with this. I consider these two very different types of accidents. The Manatee one was run-of-the-mill corner cutting and some (local) people think it's OK to do in Manatee for some reason. Even after the accident, people have been doing blind traverses there... the other traverse to CH was even shown in a youtube video as being OK to do blind (as you probably know).

On the other hand, the people that do depth records know they take a very high level of risk to set a record. I doubt that the record hunters haven't done any reading. I'm sure all the records hunters willingly take a high risk and in contrast the corner cutter do not.

 

[BoltSnap]

But it seems like he thought the basic rules of physiology and density applied to other people.

Did he? Perhaps there are other details weren't reported and we don't know. What we know is just unexplainable very crazy behavior that doesn't make any sense especially coming from a supposedly instructor.

 

[kensuf]

I trust you. It's just the conclusion that guy reached (at least, in the report I read)... Anyway, my point is that this guy (and probably others of the same school) consistently underestimates risks.

Do you think differently? Given that you are here, what do you think they did wrong in that dive at Manatee?

So..

The first time I did the traverse from Catfish to Manatee was 1994. I used roughly 10 cubic feet of gas. It's a 150m traverse at a max depth of 27m, and there is a strong flow pushing you towards the exit.

Sometime around 2017 a hurricane came and shifted some stuff in the main exit, partially blocking the way - if you don't know where to go it could cause problems. The divers didn't verify the exit, the deceased tried to go out the wrong way and got pinned against the wall due to delta P caused by the strong flow. It took over 24 hours before they were able to free her body from the wall. I guess you could argue that if she had 24 hours worth of air then the outcome would have been different.

As additional data points, it is my understanding that she was only "Cave 1" level certified and had fewer than 20 cave dives under her belt. Traverses are a no-no at that level.

 

[ginti]

So..

The first time I did the traverse from Catfish to Manatee was 1994. I used roughly 10 cubic feet of gas. It's a 150m traverse at a max depth of 27m, and there is a strong flow pushing you towards the exit.

Sometime around 2017 a hurricane came and shifted some stuff in the main exit, partially blocking the way - if you don't know where to go it could cause problems. The divers didn't verify the exit, the deceased tried to go out the wrong way and got pinned against the wall due to delta P caused by the strong flow. It took over 24 hours before they were able to free her body from the wall. I guess you could argue that if she had 24 hours worth of air then the outcome would have been different.

Now, the point of gas was something the author of the report said- although it is possible that I misinterpreted what he said due to traduction errors: if this is the case, please forgive me for causing confusion.

Now, I have no idea why he said that more gas would have to make a difference (maybe he thought he could free the victim before running out of gas if she had more reserve), but the crazy point to me is another one. In a previous horrible accident, he came to the same conclusion that he needed more gas (that time was "partially" right, although his team did so many inconceivable things that, most likely, only a bit more gas wouldn't have made the difference). Yet again, in this dive, he went with less gas than he thought was reasonable. This attitude is the thing that drives me crazy.

As additional data points, it is my understanding that she was only "Cave 1" level certified and had fewer than 20 cave dives under her belt. Traverses are a no-no at that level.

Yes, I saw it. And they mentioned only 11 hours of experience, if I recall correctly.

EDIT: by the way, thank you very much for the explanation, I appreciated it

 

[berndo]

Did he? Perhaps there are other details weren't reported and we don't know. What we know is just unexplainable very crazy behavior that doesn't make any sense especially coming from a supposedly instructor.

I don't think it's unexplainable. We've seen many of records attempts. There been several just in the last few years. Often times they make a facebook page and advertise their attempt and even look for sponsors. It's daredevil stuff. They seem to be motivated by the attention they can get from being a record holder. It's not even dive specific, IMHO.
I really don't think we should conflate these with normal accidents.

 

[Bierstadt]

It's not even dive specific, IMHO.
I really don't think we should conflate these with normal accidents.

Smartest point in this thread.

 

[John the Pom]

Exactly, that's my point. Also, the other report from the deep cave dive was crazy, and they followed the same exact process. Not asking enough or cutting corners when asking - because, "Hey, rules apply to others, not to us." And then they had a fatal accident.

I am really sorry for them and would feel better if they learned the lesson in a less painful way. I hope now they got the lesson (unfortunately, I doubt it).

Training shouldn't be about learning rules; it should be educating people to understand what they are doing, as well as giving them practical experience in different skills. That's why I would question the standard of training when someone who, on paper, is trained to this level makes such a basic error. To me, the fact that he thought he could break basic rules and get away with it means he didn't understand what he was doing, i.e., he wasn't properly trained. The fact he was training other people is horrifying.

Lack of proper standards in diver education leads to instructors who themselves don't have adequate knowledge training other divers. If training agencies don't enforce their own standards, for whatever reason, it is a slippery slope.