Cave Training and Etiquette Real or Imaginary?

[LiteHedded]

bad instructors would never invite anyone to watch.
there are solutions but it's got to start at the top with the agency standards and practices.

 

[Superlyte27]

I know this would never happen, but wouldn't it be awesome if agencies made it mandatory for instructors to list the days they were training and where they were training at. Imagine:

Peter 4/2/2015 Teaching 4 Cavern Students at Ginnie Ballroom

Then, if there were rumors about bad habits about a particular instructor, other instructors or people could go and witness what's happening. We'd know where and when to be there. There'd be multiple accounts of what happened good or bad.

Another benefit would be that two instructors from two different classes wouldn't plan on being in the same passage at the same exact time trying to do the same exact skills. Ever try to navigate through the catacombs. You get all setup for that dive, and when you get there, you realize there's already another team in there, completely screwing up your dive plan?

Of course, I realize there's a certain hint of nazi'ism to this approach. I'm not sure it would ever work, or should work. Just throwing some ideas around.

 

[The Chairman]

Used to be (may still be) the way NAUI "policed" its instructors to make sure they followed standards... fallen out of favor now.

I've tried on a number of occasions to report a NAUI instructor, but got nowhere with it. There's got to be a better way to do this.

 

[Omisson]

I know this would never happen, but wouldn't it be awesome if agencies made it mandatory for instructors to list the days they were training and where they were training at. Imagine:

Peter 4/2/2015 Teaching 4 Cavern Students at Ginnie Ballroom

Then, if there were rumors about bad habits about a particular instructor, other instructors or people could go and witness what's happening. We'd know where and when to be there. There'd be multiple accounts of what happened good or bad.

Another benefit would be that two instructors from two different classes wouldn't plan on being in the same passage at the same exact time trying to do the same exact skills. Ever try to navigate through the catacombs. You get all setup for that dive, and when you get there, you realize there's already another team in there, completely screwing up your dive plan?

Of course, I realize there's a certain hint of nazi'ism to this approach. I'm not sure it would ever work, or should work. Just throwing some ideas around.

Jim Wyatt lists the classes he's teaching on his calendar for all to see- just as one example.

Maybe others do as well-

 

[LiteHedded]

Jim Wyatt lists the classes he's teaching on his calendar for all to see- just as one example.

Maybe others do as well-

GUE lists the scheduled classes for all instructors worldwide on its website

 

[Redshift]

GUE lists the scheduled classes for all instructors worldwide on its website

More or less... They state a city or an island... It helps a lot to find a course, but still doesn't say who is where specifically in a way that misbehaviour can be controlled.

 

[GDI]

Well, this wanna-be instructor will be at the Ginnie Ballroom Saturday morning with students for their second day of Cavern Class. If any of you want to see what type of class I teach, I invite you to come and watch. I've never met any of these students. They could be great, they could be terrible, I have no idea. But you're welcome to come find out with me. Then you can judge for yourself what kind of instructor I am.

Maybe that's the answer...
A forum where instructors invite others to audit their class. And feedback then relayed back through the forum.

Be careful what you ask for, The idea however isn't unfeasible. Feedback is a good thing

---------- Post added March 31st, 2015 at 11:43 AM ----------

I know this would never happen, but wouldn't it be awesome if agencies made it mandatory for instructors to list the days they were training and where they were training at. Imagine:

Peter 4/2/2015 Teaching 4 Cavern Students at Ginnie Ballroom

Then, if there were rumors about bad habits about a particular instructor, other instructors or people could go and witness what's happening. We'd know where and when to be there. There'd be multiple accounts of what happened good or bad.

Another benefit would be that two instructors from two different classes wouldn't plan on being in the same passage at the same exact time trying to do the same exact skills. Ever try to navigate through the catacombs. You get all setup for that dive, and when you get there, you realize there's already another team in there, completely screwing up your dive plan?

Of course, I realize there's a certain hint of nazi'ism to this approach. I'm not sure it would ever work, or should work. Just throwing some ideas around.

the logistics would be a challenge

 

[boulderjohn]

I've tried on a number of occasions to report a NAUI instructor, but got nowhere with it. There's got to be a better way to do this.

Why on Earth wold you see a need to report a NAUI instructor for anything?

Some of you will recall that not long ago I mentioned that my niece had received OW instruction that did not meet standards. I was slammed by someone who said that was not possible, because in the entire history of NAUI, there had never been a case of an instructor violating standards in instruction.

Well, I am not trying to revive that or pick on NAUI. I am just citing it as only one example of agency jingoism that I believe is destructive to reaching agreements in this thread or in the effort as a whole.

 

[Superlyte27]

Be careful what you ask for, The idea however isn't unfeasible. Feedback is a good thing

I don't need to be careful. I'm completely confident in the classes I teach. I've said for years, any of you can come any time and grab any folder from my file cabinet. Call up the student, ask them to go diving with you, and then evaluate their skill in the water. With the exception of just a single student in that file cabinet, all of them would pass with flying colors by nearly anyone's standards.

 

[GDI]

Now just to put some things into review here.

Over the last period we have discussed:

Pre-requisites for entering a cave/rn program (proper trim, buoyancy, fining techniques, ability to task load, awareness skills, basic scuba skills comfort levels etc)
Monitoring of classes (instructors mentoring, re-calibration, co-teaching processes)
Open forum feedback and posting of classes
Incident and Violation Reporting
Follow through of Violations Investigations (you made the claim now back it up and stay with it)
Fitness Assessment of Instructors (physical fitness and annual review, medical considerations)
Common Core Cave/rn skills that are basic to all cave training agencies of/for any potential student
Standard and procedure (more detail and specifics on expectations)
Instructor Pre-requisites for becoming a cave/rn instructor, ethics and professionalism, discipline and administrative actions
Training Programs (2 day/ 4 dive minimums for each level)
The number of levels from one agency to another and how they compare

Did I miss anything? please add it

For those cave/rn instructors out there these are things we should be discussing in the Cave Instructors forum, submit your request to gain access (name, agency and instructor number) Tell the Training Departments of the training agencies to become involved and participate in the Cave Instructors Task Force (again by invite of agency supported training directors or representatives)