Cave instructor - Mayan riviera - recommendation, Please and Thank you

[bamafan]

Latching in to this thread. Are the guys mentioned also recommended if I want to get my cave training in backmount?

Most of the people recommended are known for teaching in sidemount. If you want BM I would talk to the guys at Zero Gravity. As stated earlier there are two main camps in Mexico cave diving. There are the Razor guys (Bogaerts, HP, Natalie Gibbs, Alexander Buess, etc). Patrick at Protec Playa is involved with the X Deep Stealth thus the guys teaching out of the Protec shops use the Stealth.

Can the Stealth guys teach the Razor? Yes but they aren't as familiar with it and are definitely more excited to teach the Stealth over the Razor. I would say the same thing in reverse too. You will see this to some extent in Florida sidemount instructors. Most instructors have their favorite rig and often struggle when you get them outside of what they know.

 

[StefinSB]

Most instructors have their favorite rig and often struggle when you get them outside of what they know.

Thanks. That somehow doesn’t sound very confidence expiring to me but it is what it is I guess. Is that a side effect of not having a “standardized” sidemount setup?

 

[rddvet]

If you're diving backmount your two best options are (not in order of preference):
1) Zero Gravity-those guys are awesome instructors, but you are stuck with the GUE courses. That is definitely not a bad thing, unless you're worried about cost. GUE courses are more than most, but there's a reason for that

2) Kelvin Davidson (Third Dimension DIving)- I've known Kelvin for years and he is awesome. He is conservative, safe, and teaches you to be a thinking diver, not just a cave diver. He is an instructor trainer for many many courses and agencies, and has trained many of the instructors in Mexico. He is somewhat DIR in philosophy, also teaches GUE fundies, but will also dive and teach sm and rebreather. I live 2 hours from florida's cave country, but all of my future advanced cave and technical courses will be taught by him. I went through full cave in florida, but I find his teaching superior to most I've encountered in Florida (and Mexico). He also has steel tanks in his shop, so you have the option to dive steel and al80s. He would be my primary recommendation.

Patric is a nice guy and a hell of an instructor. He can also be annoying as hell if you can't deal with his personality. He is very happy, very boisterous, and very flamboyant about everything. It can be uplifting if you're having a rough day. His positivity will uplift you from your funk. It can also annoy the sh-t out of you. I personally like him and enjoy talking to him. I planned at one point to take a class with him. After spoending alot of time around him at Protec, I decided his personality and mine might start to grind against each other after a few days.

I personally would also prefer to be based in Tulum not Playa.

If you're thinking of Protec (who I used for years), Kim Davidsson at the Tulum shop is awesome. Very professional and knowledgeable. There are some younger guys that teach under him as well and they're very nice, but I lean towards Kim.

I've met Natalie Gibb several times and she is very nice and very well respected. Also a good choice.

 

[Kevrumbo]

2) Kelvin Davidson (Third Dimension DIving)- I've known Kelvin for years and he is awesome. He is conservative, safe, and teaches you to be a thinking diver, not just a cave diver. He is an instructor trainer for many many courses and agencies, and has trained many of the instructors in Mexico. He is somewhat DIR in philosophy, also teaches GUE fundies, but will also dive and teach sm and rebreather. I live 2 hours from florida's cave country, but all of my future advanced cave and technical courses will be taught by him. I went through full cave in florida, but I find his teaching superior to most I've encountered in Florida (and Mexico). He also has steel tanks in his shop, so you have the option to dive steel and al80s. He would be my primary recommendation.

Kelvin was my primary wreck guide in Chuuk when he was dive operations manager there at the Truk Lagoon Dive Center/Truk Stop Hotel from 2008-10 (as well as Rob McGann from 2010-2015 -->both are now top notch cave instructors with Rob in Little River Springs FL, and Kelvin in Tulum Mexico). I've known Kelvin & Anabel going back to 2006 at Tech Asia Dive-Ops in Puerto Galera & Subic Bay Philippines, where I did most of my practical tech training to eventually dive the WWII wrecks of the Indo-Pacific Region.

It was @Kelvin Davidson at the time in 2009 who along with advising his native Chuukese Dive Guides, began taking what I noticed were "peculiarly" extra long O2 shallow stop profiles each dive day for four consecutive work days wreck guiding before taking their day-off break; and who first alluded to me about what was then an unexpected preliminary result of an obscure Navy Experimental Dive Unit abstract and study-in-progress regarding "higher incidence of DCS and deepstops."

Anyway Kelvin brings a wealth of crossover technical wreck experience from the remote Asian/Micronesian tropics, added to his practical content gained diving the Caves of the Yucatan since then -some of which may or might not tactically apply to both cave and wreck diving. But IMHO, he has the best knowledge, skill and ability to teach the meta-cognitive similarities and differences between both Overhead Disciplines (more so above and beyond than any of the current cadre of GUE Instructors). . .

 

[northernone]

Dove with some and met more, hard to go wrong with any of those recommendations.

My advice would be to make few phone calls and get a feel for personality and training philosophy. Matching might be the determining factor among excellent instructors, there are some strong personalities.

Enjoy the diving!
Cameron

 

[JohnnyC]

I dunno if Steve will teach backmount, but all of the Protec guys teach backmount too. Zero Gravity is backmount as well, but they're the GUE shop so if you're not into that, they're sort of out. I've never been in the water with Kelvin, so I can't comment. I've seen Steve Martin teaching in both backmount and sidemount but he pushes sidemount on everybody if he gets the chance. It's just his thing. Most of the instructors down there generally teach in sidemount more often because it's the bandwagon amongst divers these days. You could spend years in Mexico never doing the same dive twice and never needing sidemount, but sure as hell people will spend big bucks on it for no reason.

All of the instructors down there have enough people roll through that they're all really familiar with the stuff that's out there. It's not like you'd get subpar training in a Stealth by taking a course with Steve even though he invented the Razor. You'll end up just as proficient a diver as a student that took the course with him in a Razor. It's not magic making any of those systems work, and they see enough of them that it's a moot point.

Your biggest decision is going to be who you feel you're going to get along with and get the most out of.

 

[bamafan]

Thanks. That somehow doesn’t sound very confidence expiring to me but it is what it is I guess. Is that a side effect of not having a “standardized” sidemount setup?

Sadly in Florida there are very few descent sidemount instructors. Most look like crap. The guys in Mexico just seem to take more pride in how they look and generally their students look better.

 

[The Chairman]

My advice would be to make few phone calls and get a feel for personality and training philosophy.

I fully agree.

 

[rddvet]

[QUOTE="JohnnyC, post: 8282604, member: 429324" Most of the instructors down there generally teach in sidemount more often because it's the bandwagon amongst divers these days. [/QUOTE]

That's more true for Florida as opposed to Mexico. Yes, it's popularity has increased the number of instructors teaching it down there. The reality is that in Mexico there are alot more sites that are best suited in sidemount, due to the size of the cave, the entrance, some of the restrictions, or even the ability to get tanks into the water. Some cenotes require ladder climbs or rappelling and it can be a lot harder with doubles on your back. In Florida, your statement is way more true. There are way less sidemount-necessary places to dive in florida, and even some of the "sidemount caves" could easily be done in backmount without damage. In Mexico, there is more bottle off and no mounting happening in explorations dives than here. So there was initially more of a necessity for it there. But, yes now people are jumping on the popularity bandwagon.

 

[The Chairman]

Sadly in Florida there are very few descent sidemount instructors.

You're simply not looking then. Lamar Hires, Jared Hires, @kensuf and many, many others look great and are competent side mount instructors. However, I'm not sure that Jared is teaching cave yet.