Cavern To Full Cave Pace

[rjack321]

What I realize in hindsight was that doing the same dives over and over between C1 and C2 reached a point of diminishing returns. I probably had done about 50 C1 dives when I took C2, but they were all along the same three or four main lines. GUE's stated minimum of 25 dives between C1 and C2 is probably about right as a minimum, and doing some more beyond that is worthwhile--from what I've heard others say, around 50 seems pretty common. But if you find yourself doing the same dives over and over and feel like it's getting repetitious, like handling the reel is no longer a big deal, and you have played around with various routes to run the line into the main line, then maybe you're ready for the next course. Sure, there are still more things you can do if you're determined to really take your time and are a bit of a masochist. For instance, someone told me a mentor had them run the reel hundreds of feet into the cave, in high flow (Ginnie), before tying into the main line (at the Lips, if you know Ginnie), just to push their reel skills. Impressive, but I'm not sure that would have helped me that much in preparing for C2.

This is less common for those of us who did C1 and C2 in MX where you have a vastly larger number of systems and dives to choose from at the C1 level to gain experience before taking C2/full

 

[Rilelen]

Every time this kind of discussion comes up, I'm perplexed that the perspective of learning is not more emphasized. Of course some divers will learn faster, be more comfortable and skilled, while others need more time to meet the minimum requirements for passing the course standards. I'm sure some divers are able to complete the full cave course in one go without failing or killing themselves. However, I'm quite certain that everyone will LEARN MORE in the second class if they have time to gain experience, let the knowledge acquired mature and have time to reflect on what they learned in the first class. After internalizing the knowledge and gaining more experience, you know what to ask and what you need help to work on, giving a completely different learning outcome.

This 100%. I’m local to Florida cave country, and took about nine months (25-30 dives) between intro and full. Full was pretty easy for me, and I think I probably could have done it right after intro, but am really glad I didn’t. I got so much more out of the course taking some time in between to get out and dive.

Totally agree that the role of practice is very underrated - doing something in a class once or twice is very different from rehearsed practice that really engrains what you’ve learned. We got to do some fun stuff in my full cave class because I had the bandwidth to do more.

 

[Lorenzoid]

This is less common for those of us who did C1 and C2 in MX where you have a vastly larger number of systems and dives to choose from at the C1 level to gain experience before taking C2/full

Unless you live there, and if not rushing, that could mean several trips to Mexico between C1 and C2. I took one trip there and got in some dives, but most of my practice between C1 and C2 was in Florida. Yes, it would have been better to have dived more in Mexico to gain a more diverse experience, but it wasn’t practical for me.

 

[rjack321]

Unless you live there, and if not rushing, that could mean several trips to Mexico between C1 and C2. I took one trip there and got in some dives, but most of my practice between C1 and C2 was in Florida. Yes, it would have been better to have dived more in Mexico to gain a more diverse experience, but it wasn’t practical for me.

I think I did 3 or 4 trips at the C1 level to MX - its way better there for C1 divers in general TBH. My 5th trip was for C2

 

[Lorenzoid]

I think I did 3 or 4 trips at the C1 level to MX - its way better there for C1 divers in general TBH. My 5th trip was for C2

If one can, then certainly. I managed just the one trip for fun diving in MX in the two years before I returned there for C2. This hobby is expensive! Heading back for my annual MX trip in a couple of weeks, but if I could afford to visit more often I sure would. Anyway, for purposes of the topic of this thread, I don’t think anyone disagrees that diving as much as possible in as many varied places as possible between courses would be ideal.

 

[Nosmosis]

Everyone progresses at their own pace, but if sidemount is the way you are going, master that before moving to the first step of the cave curriculum. I personally am a fan of completing cavern/intro, gaining some experience and mastering those skills (running a reel, cave awareness, comfort, etc) before completing full cave and stage.

See you soon!

 

[rjack321]

If one can, then certainly. I managed just the one trip for fun diving in MX in the two years before I returned there for C2. This hobby is expensive! Heading back for my annual MX trip in a couple of weeks, but if I could afford to visit more often I sure would. Anyway, for purposes of the topic of this thread, I don’t think anyone disagrees that diving as much as possible in as many varied places as possible between courses would be ideal.

I realize that. Just saying that FL is kinda challenging at the C1 level. But MX is pretty diverse and there's less chance of feeling "tapped out" with C1 options in MX

 

[kensuf]

Impressive, but I'm not sure that would have helped me that much in preparing for C2.

It's about developing comfort in the water and mastery running a reel in adverse conditions.

This 100%. I’m local to Florida cave country, and took about nine months (25-30 dives) between intro and full. Full was pretty easy for me, and I think I probably could have done it right after intro, but am really glad I didn’t. I got so much more out of the course taking some time in between to get out and dive.

Me too and I was highly motivated to finish full cave because back in the early/mid-90s, if you only had an intro card and were diving doubles, you were run off from the parks. I did Cavern in spring '94, Intro a month later, and full cave was January '95.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I realize that. Just saying that FL is kinda challenging at the C1 level. But MX is pretty diverse and there's less chance of feeling "tapped out" with C1 options in MX

As far as the OP of this thread is concerned, as I commented two years ago in post #10, if one lives in the Riviera Maya, taking it slow between courses and doing a lot of practice diving there is a no-brainer. For the rest of us, especially those on a budget for this hobby, or who can't take a week off work very often, we may have to be more pragmatic and get our diving in where we can.

 

[Manatee Diver]

I went into more detail in my thread. But I think that doing dives between Intro/C1/Apprentice and Full/C2 helped me a lot. The Apprentice level cave diving class is overwhelming. Everything adds together and you are often just completely task loaded as you don't have the "muscle memory" to do a lot of tasks without thinking through them.

Over the couple dozen dives that I did between Apprentice and Full, which included a weekend to do Apprentice Plus which gave me a jump and thirds. Along with a week in Mexico. I built comfort in the cave and developed many of the skills to the point that it didn't require thinking through them. To the point that the final weekend to pass full cave it felt like "That's it?" Despite the fact that it included many drills, complex circuits, and doing a zero viz exit from Martz to the sign at Madison.

I credit that to the practice and comfort I built up by doing the dives between the classes. IMO that "muscle memory" is important, as it allows more of your brain power available to think through problems. You are more likely to experience minor failures that teach you. A lot of line running involves being able to tell if the rock will hold the line and you gain that by failing at getting a line to hold many times.

Someone commented that you are doing the same dive over and over again. Honestly I think that is a good thing. You get to actually do trail and error. I learned Ginnie's Gallery by spending a few dives just diving the Gallery. It taught me a lot about diving in the flow because I was able to step back and analyze what I was doing wrong and try new approaches to compare. Also your cave awareness expands, every dive you see more and more of the cave.