Cave gear and light recommendations needed

[wstorms]

As my course is set next year I'm refraining from pestering and pissing my instructor off for the time being haha!

Not much harm in sending an email or two. Most will appreciate the preparation, especially if you ask specific questions. So do your homework (like above), figure out what the best thing would be according to you and ask the instructor to either confirm your thorough prep work, or tell you something you don't know yet Obviously "thanks for the question, we will discuss it during your course" is a perfectly acceptable answer as well

 

[Caveeagle]

Wow. A 10 day cavern to ccr/cave is very aggressive. I’m sure you have considered this, but there are sooo many things that could drop on you and sabotage that plan.

Where are you planning your training?

I have seen divers who were already tech competent and had a lot of dive experience who take to the skills quickly and progress very fast. But consider that even under the best circumstances, you well “graduate” with a full cave/CCR cert and only have 20-25 cave dives under your belt. I had well over 100 full cave dives when I did my cave-CCR crossover.

not trying to be overly judgemental, I just personally question the value of “cert cards” when the balance of experience is so lopsided.

I know it’s hard for people who don’t live close to the dive sites, but let’s not forget you cannot fake experience and muscle memory. This IS dangerous, and this environment can be very unforgiving of mistakes.

 

[Caveeagle]

Have 3 shearwaters. What's next

that’s a good start!

 

[STIDVC]

Not much harm in sending an email or two. Most will appreciate the preparation, especially if you ask specific questions. So do your homework (like above), figure out what the best thing would be according to you and ask the instructor to either confirm your thorough prep work, or tell you something you don't know yet Obviously "thanks for the question, we will discuss it during your course" is a perfectly acceptable answer as well

I read a thread stickied here to make a list of questions which I intend to do a little later this month. For the time being I'm just gathering as much info from threads and just brushing up on the lingo. With that being said I still have no idea why the Joe Rogan interview with that UFC dude was an issue

 

[CptTightPants21]

Great read on every from everyone of you thanks for the input. The general perception is to stay clear from overpowered lights since I'm barely out of the door from caverns let alone caving.



I totally understand where you're coming from and admit that I'm overly enthusiastic for the course and want to be somewhat well equipped and prepared for it, which I guess is both a good and bad thing?

Unfortunately I only have access to orcatorch and bigblue lights physically in stores so other options have to be shipped internationally which is also one of my concerns.

In regards to the so called zero to hero aspect of the course, i was offered the full course consecutively from naught and the opportunity to have the CCR crossover which I am going to do. Basically the idea is a 10 day intensive cavern to full cave course and another 4 days for the CCR course assuming everything goes as planned. So far I have not read any manuals or done any preparations but am trying to scratch the surface on the fundamentals, therefore , I know next to nothing (not that I know anything else). I'm basically just trying to find ways on how not to kill myself at this point

Have 3 shearwaters. What's next

Congrats on progressing to cave diving. So you have plenty of shearwaters, which is great. What kind of diving experience do you have and what other equipment are you using?

As my course is set next year I'm refraining from pestering and pissing my instructor off for the time being haha!

That is the wrong mentality to have. An instructor should not have any issue offering guidance and answering questions. Hard to put specifics on the level of questioning that would need to be done to be elevated to pestering, but it is a lot. Ask clear and concise questions, get clear opinions. If an instructor can't adequately lay out specifics and rationale in an email, what makes you think they will be able to do it during the course--that would be my thinking anyway?

 

[STIDVC]

Wow. A 10 day cavern to ccr/cave is very aggressive. I’m sure you have considered this, but there are sooo many things that could drop on you and sabotage that plan.

Where are you planning your training?

I have seen divers who were already tech competent and had a lot of dive experience who take to the skills quickly and progress very fast. But consider that even under the best circumstances, you well “graduate” with a full cave/CCR cert and only have 20-25 cave dives under your belt. I had well over 100 full cave dives when I did my cave-CCR crossover.

not trying to be overly judgemental, I just personally question the value of “cert cards” when the balance of experience is so lopsided.

I know it’s hard for people who don’t live close to the dive sites, but let’s not forget you cannot fake experience and muscle memory. This IS dangerous, and this environment can be very unforgiving of mistakes.

It's 10 days cavern to cave and another 4 for CCR. I'm going to be honest and say that I jumped at the opportunity without thorough thought and know this is either going to result in me 'graduating' or having to repeat the course at a slower rate. Which I'm happy with either.

The course will be held in thailand.

I totally understand where you are coming from and I do personally have doubts on my own capabilities but I am still willing to learn as much as I can and give it a shot and if I could satisfy my instructor I'm willing to bet that he knows best and if I do not meet expectations, I know that more training is required.

Congrats on progressing to cave diving. So you have plenty of shearwaters, which is great. What kind of diving experience do you have and what other equipment are you using?



That is the wrong mentality to have. An instructor should not have any issue offering guidance and answering questions. Hard to put specifics on the level of questioning that would need to be done to be elevated to pestering, but it is a lot. Ask clear and concise questions, get clear opinions. If an instructor can't adequately lay out specifics and rationale in an email, what makes you think they will be able to do it during the course--that would be my thinking anyway?

The Shearwater bit was suppose to be a joke to lighten the mood I recently got my hands into CCR diving having clocked just a few hours on it (may have left out that the cave CCR will be at a much later date when more OC caves and CCR hours are clocked).

I'm not too sure if it's the norm or the cultural difference but I tend to ask questions at the begining of my Tec dive courses in the past which ultimately resulted in what wstorms mention in his post 'we will talk about it during the course' which has made me a little more reserved in my questioning.

Albeit, to some my decision for the course may seem dumb or foolhardy, but it has been a personal goal of mine for sometime and I'd like to see how far I could progress from my current skill level. I would be content knowing I tried and failed than to never try at all. Just my opinion on this matter if anyone is wondering.

 

[rddvet]

In regards to the so called zero to hero aspect of the course, i was offered the full course consecutively from naught and the opportunity to have the CCR crossover which I am going to do. Basically the idea is a 10 day intensive cavern to full cave course and another 4 days for the CCR course assuming everything goes as planned. So far I have not read any manuals or done any preparations but am trying to scratch the surface on the fundamentals, therefore , I know next to nothing (not that I know anything else). I'm basically just trying to find ways on how not to kill myself at this point

Have 3 shearwaters. What's next

It would be helpful if we knew about your current skill level. Unless you’re a very seasoned technical diver, doing a 10 day zero to hero course is scary as hell. Those courses typically don’t lead to the best cave divers. A better plan would be cavern and intro then get experience before moving forward. If you’re a tight technical diver with spot on trim and tons of confidence in the water you may be ok. But I’ve seen those zero to hero classes wash people out quickly. I also highly question the instructors who teach those unless they’re teaching so,done they’ve already either mentored as a tech diver or know their skill level. Where are you taking your course?
Don’t be overly enthusiastic and push your way through the classes. Experience between classes is exceptionally helpful as is using more than one instructor.

 

[rddvet]

Forgot to add. Then you add a 4 day ccr crossover immediately after class and that’s even scarier. There is a minimum number of cave dives mostagencies require before a ccr crossover.

 

[macado]

I will just say this if you're not opposed to buying used then a 21W HID light (Halcyon / Light Money / Salvo) can be picked up very cheap since LED is the new "hotness."

A 21W HID used to be the gold standard for cave diving. I would bet more caves have been explored and illuminated with a 21W HIDs then LEDs.

I'm still a big fan of HIDs for murky water with lots of particulates. LEDs admittedly have smaller light heads and travel well and are smaller but I've got multiple HID lights still on their original bulbs and I don't exactly baby my gear.

There is some element to "buy once, cry once." Say you spend $500 on a good quality light for cavern/intro. Should you have just invested that $500 into a better primary in the first place?

The 32W LED by Light Monkey is a fine light. I also really like the Dive Rite EX35

 

[STIDVC]

It would be helpful if we knew about your current skill level. Unless you’re a very seasoned technical diver, doing a 10 day zero to hero course is scary as hell. Those courses typically don’t lead to the best cave divers. A better plan would be cavern and intro then get experience before moving forward. If you’re a tight technical diver with spot on trim and tons of confidence in the water you may be ok. But I’ve seen those zero to hero classes wash people out quickly. I also highly question the instructors who teach those unless they’re teaching so,done they’ve already either mentored as a tech diver or know their skill level. Where are you taking your course?
Don’t be overly enthusiastic and push your way through the classes. Experience between classes is exceptionally helpful as is using more than one instructor.

I won't say that I am a seasoned technical diver, I am currently on TEC45 with about 100 dives since certification from 40. I see your on the huge leap forward and have my own personal concerns regarding totally new environments + a ton of new skills to learn and develop. Although I have my reservations, I am very cautious of not pushing beyond my limits and would consider putting pause on the course and do more cavern dives for experience in the event that I do not feel too confident or comfortable.

Im glad I posted this here as the feedback from all of you is invaluable. I was not aware that going all the way to full cave was considered to be that hardcore, I knew it was a big leap but didn't expect that it was that extreme. Cheers!